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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Luca Cherstich" data-source="post: 3044387" data-attributes="member: 44318">I know these two are two completely different (and opposite) aproaches to the same subjectI would like to know your opinion about the two things.I bought CryHavoc 2 years ago but I used it not enough.I think it is a very interesting system, possibly the best one on the market.I recently had a quick look on Heroes of Battle.It looks to me a sophisticated version of whta I used to do in my Ropleaying youth (OD&D, aeons and centuries ago!!): deviding tha battle in a serious of events with pre-decised results and possible changes after the PC actions.I have not finished to read the books yet but I got the key issues like Victory POints, etc.In general Heroes of Battle seems perfcet when the PCs are a kind of "Jolly Jocker" influencing teh battle with direct6 attacks and actions in few special places. The problem is when PC are not "special commandos" but officials leading hundreds of soldiers in a normal, frontal (hoplitic or Medieval style) battle. With the pre-decised system it looks to me that there is no system to know whether 1000 orcs will beat 1000 humans if the Dm has not already decised something.With Cry Havoc the mechaninsm is more honest since there are rules covering exactly what's happening.In many sesnse it is a fairer system.The real problem with Cry Havoc is that, when you have to do a real battle with hundres of units, you need d t spend a lot of time pre-paring the units.I know there is a battle system in which you can summarize things when you need to manouver thousand insteda of hundreds but that system is so de-humanuising that it is impossible to understand what's going on toteh PCs. (and unfair because MAgic counts nothing)Cry Havoc "normal system" is frustating unllessyou alwsy want to do 50 vs 50 people.WIt hHEroes of Battle the thing is resolved but still remains teh problem that  is completely arbitrary to know if 1000 orcs beat or not 1000 humansWIth "Heroes" teh PCs are important...but is it realistic that a OC can change a battle of 1000 vs 1000 if he is in the front line (unless he is Stormbringer...) Any comment?</blockquote>

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