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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4726634" data-attributes="member: 63763">Based on that, it does seem that the various defense boosting feats are enough to keep the defenses for the stats you boost at each level to keep comparable to starting defenses. The dump stated defense is probably going to be bad no matter what [you can get I guess +9 total with item bonuses added to the various feats. That gets you to 7. If it's reflex, a heavy shield gets it to 9. Presumably you'd start with a stat higher than 10 in your worst save (either 18's in your primary/secondary after racial, and 12 in one stat for a different save, or you have 18/16 with a 14 in a tertiary, so that can get you an extra +1 or 2, which could get you up to an 11, plus there are classes like paladin that would give you +1 across the board to saves, even the worst one.] Ultimately, with taking all the feats, and an investment in items, plus not completely dump statting at the start, you can get close to a 50/50 against same level enemies with your worst defense. Your best defense can be kept decent with minimal upkeep (about a feat per tier) and can be made really high if you invest. In the AC situation, the paragon feats for armor specialization (or shield specialization) closes the gap to +13 vs. +14, so it seemed that AC, at least, had it's math worked out early (with the masterwork), and they used the Adventurer's Vault to clean it up (as they hadn't factored in some of the intermediate stages, just the big picture "at 30, the difference between start and now, with the feat, is a drop of 1".  The PHBII feats seem to fall in line with the masterwork/armor specialization 'math fixes' in the PHB and Adventurer's vault [the item bonuses to non-AC defenses in Ad Vault probably being a math fix before PHBII, meaning they can tbe combined to get ahead of the curve on good defenses, or can turn the worst defense into one that is non-trivial to hit.</blockquote>

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