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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4977525" data-attributes="member: 43019">CR had serious problems, even with core books. Monster advancement and templates (for monsters, not players) could do all sorts of stupidness and many powers outright negated supposed threats.At any rate, it's entirely possible that heroic is indeed 3 ahead of where it should be. In which case, the math is glitched there, instead of epic. And even if the math isn't glitched, the feats are, which in turn means the _new_ math is glitched. It's pretty much a lose-lose.One big consideration is that from 11 to 30 you gain some utlity powers (4, I believe) and a _single_ daily attack power. From 9 to 30, a single encounter and daily attack. Etc. So a casual assumption about having a  lot more encounter and daily attacks as you progress from that level to epic isn't entirely representative. They have addressed that somewhat in later books, with things like action points restoring encounter powers, power salves, power jewels, etc. At any rate, I really don't care which way the math is correct, I just object to Expertise's implementation. At first I assumed that powers bridged the gap, but I've looked into it a few times and with a couple of exceptions (like a ranger stance to add Wis to hit, I think) the best powers are actually at low level. There are actually less powers that give big penalties to defenses and bonuses to attack once you leave heroic, last time I went looking.So if that's your argument - great, prove it. Saying that people played successfully at epic before the PH2 isn't a particularly meaningful argument. People play a lot of stuff that has problems. Doesn't make the problems a system feature. Just that people enjoy playing with their friends, so it only matters when the problems are a _really big deal_. And even then people will tend to just figure out some other solution.Like sending lower level stuff against the party.</blockquote>

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