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Math help with crossbow damage
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5699172" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>So wait, the DM is saying even with Crossbow Master feat, the great crossbow would take a move action to reload? If yes, then ditch it, full attacking is the whole point of archery. If Crossbow Master will work, take it and use Great Crossbow.</p><p></p><p>Why are you level 8 with only a masterwork weapon?</p><p></p><p>The heavy crossbow build should lose focused shot unless there's seriously nothing better left to take. You should be full attacking whenever possible. I suggest you drop Crossbow Fighter completely. Weapon Master 3 will get you Weapon Training 1, which then means in a few levels when he can afford the 16000 gp, he can get the Gloves of Duelling from APG, which is an extra +2 attack and damage.</p><p></p><p>For rogue, sniper is sadly a bit of a trap option. You see, APG, the same book that printed it, also printed Sniper's Goggles, which let you sneak attack at any range and make the archetype largely redundant (the 1st level benefit is still nice, but hardly necessary). If you have no other rogue archetpyes you like keep it I guess, but it gets kinda neutered by that item. I like the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/rake" target="_blank">Rake</a>. Note Bravado's Blade is not melee-only.</p><p></p><p>What you need is to be able to full attack sneak attack. This is incredibly hard in PF, which nerfed the bejesus out of ranged rogues. No longer does ring of blinking or the grease spell work. You either need an ally to buff you with Greater Invisibility, or the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat---final" target="_blank">Shatter Defenses</a> feat. With 3 Fighter levels, you can snag it at level 7+, though the feat costs are high. You can use Bravado's Blade to generate its benefit.</p><p></p><p>Suggested feats:</p><p>Rapid Reload</p><p>Crossbow Master</p><p>Point Blank Shot</p><p>Precise Shot</p><p>Rapid Shot</p><p>Deadly Aim</p><p>Clustered Shots</p><p>Shatter Defenses, Weapon Focus, and Dazzling Display (all 3 or none)</p><p></p><p>Avoid: Far Shot, it sucks, and Manyshot since it doesn't add SA damage to it. Focused Shot is ok if you have all the above already...good luck with that... Improved Precise Shot later on is actually possibly avoidable. Cover is annoying as hell, but as a rogue your biggest concern is concealment (it rapes sneak attack, it sure does!), and IPS is both very high level and only negates non-total concealment. Long before then you can get a Seeking enhancement on the crossbow and just plain ignore all concealment / miss chance. IMO, it is THE most essential weapon enhancement for a ranged rogue, by far.</p><p></p><p>Magic items to acquire:</p><p>+X Seeking Heavy Crossbow</p><p>Sniper Goggles</p><p>Gloves of Duelling</p><p>Circlet of Persuasion</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I should also point out that Deadly Aim for this build is absolutely not a required feat like it is for more martial archers, it's an insurance policy. Each penalty to hit means less chance of dealing SA damage aside from the feat's actual +2 damage / -1 to hit tradeoff. IMO, unless the target is very easy to hit, the feat is not worth using when you can sneak attack. Therefore, the only time you'd actually use Deadly Aim (other than again, jokingly easy to hit targets) is when you can't sneak attack, to keep your damage at least slightly relevant. It is by no means a high priority for you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5699172, member: 35909"] So wait, the DM is saying even with Crossbow Master feat, the great crossbow would take a move action to reload? If yes, then ditch it, full attacking is the whole point of archery. If Crossbow Master will work, take it and use Great Crossbow. Why are you level 8 with only a masterwork weapon? The heavy crossbow build should lose focused shot unless there's seriously nothing better left to take. You should be full attacking whenever possible. I suggest you drop Crossbow Fighter completely. Weapon Master 3 will get you Weapon Training 1, which then means in a few levels when he can afford the 16000 gp, he can get the Gloves of Duelling from APG, which is an extra +2 attack and damage. For rogue, sniper is sadly a bit of a trap option. You see, APG, the same book that printed it, also printed Sniper's Goggles, which let you sneak attack at any range and make the archetype largely redundant (the 1st level benefit is still nice, but hardly necessary). If you have no other rogue archetpyes you like keep it I guess, but it gets kinda neutered by that item. I like the [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/rake]Rake[/url]. Note Bravado's Blade is not melee-only. What you need is to be able to full attack sneak attack. This is incredibly hard in PF, which nerfed the bejesus out of ranged rogues. No longer does ring of blinking or the grease spell work. You either need an ally to buff you with Greater Invisibility, or the [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat---final]Shatter Defenses[/url] feat. With 3 Fighter levels, you can snag it at level 7+, though the feat costs are high. You can use Bravado's Blade to generate its benefit. Suggested feats: Rapid Reload Crossbow Master Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Rapid Shot Deadly Aim Clustered Shots Shatter Defenses, Weapon Focus, and Dazzling Display (all 3 or none) Avoid: Far Shot, it sucks, and Manyshot since it doesn't add SA damage to it. Focused Shot is ok if you have all the above already...good luck with that... Improved Precise Shot later on is actually possibly avoidable. Cover is annoying as hell, but as a rogue your biggest concern is concealment (it rapes sneak attack, it sure does!), and IPS is both very high level and only negates non-total concealment. Long before then you can get a Seeking enhancement on the crossbow and just plain ignore all concealment / miss chance. IMO, it is THE most essential weapon enhancement for a ranged rogue, by far. Magic items to acquire: +X Seeking Heavy Crossbow Sniper Goggles Gloves of Duelling Circlet of Persuasion EDIT: I should also point out that Deadly Aim for this build is absolutely not a required feat like it is for more martial archers, it's an insurance policy. Each penalty to hit means less chance of dealing SA damage aside from the feat's actual +2 damage / -1 to hit tradeoff. IMO, unless the target is very easy to hit, the feat is not worth using when you can sneak attack. Therefore, the only time you'd actually use Deadly Aim (other than again, jokingly easy to hit targets) is when you can't sneak attack, to keep your damage at least slightly relevant. It is by no means a high priority for you. [/QUOTE]
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