Maximising Spells

[Hypersmurf]

Would a Maximised Spiritual Weapon deal 8 damage on each hit?

A Maximised Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound bite for 15 damage on every attack?

A Maximised Poison spell 10 Con Damage primary and secondary?

A Maximised Reincarnate always return "Other (DM's Choice)"?

A Maximised Summon Monster III summon 5 Celestial Dogs... or 5 Maximised Celestial Dogs (max HP, max damage on bites)?

-Hyp.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Would a Maximised Spiritual Weapon deal 8 damage on each hit?

Yes.

A Maximised Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound bite for 15 damage on every attack?

No.

A Maximised Poison spell 10 Con Damage primary and secondary?

Yes.

A Maximised Reincarnate always return "Other (DM's Choice)"?

No.

A Maximised Summon Monster III summon 5 Celestial Dogs... or 5 Maximised Celestial Dogs (max HP, max damage on bites)?

5 Celestial dogs. The summoned monsters' attacks and damage do not benefit from the feat. This is also the reason why the Faithful Hound above does not benefit with its attacks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The summoned monsters' attacks and damage do not benefit from the feat. This is also the reason why the Faithful Hound above does not benefit with its attacks.

I'm happy with the Summon Monster call - the creatures already exist on another plane somewhere, and the spell simply brings them along. The Metamagic doesn't alter the creatures. No problem.

However, the Hound...

I'm assuming that the damage from a "fiery bolts" Flame Arrow would be maximised. It's Conjuration (Creation).

Spiritual Weapon is Evocation, but it behaves a lot like a summoned creature - it moves, attacks, rolls a die for damage.

The Faithful Hound is not a summoned creature; the spell is Conjuration (Creation), not Summoning or Calling. It creates a "phantom watchdog" that attacks and rolls dice for damage.

How is this different to the created Flame Arrow, or the Spiritual Weapon that makes melee attacks?

Are your rulings "gut feelings", or can you justify them in greater detail?

-Hyp.

 

[Jalkain]

I'm happy with the Summon Monster call - the creatures already exist on another plane somewhere, and the spell simply brings them along. The Metamagic doesn't alter the creatures. No problem.

However, the Hound...

I'm assuming that the damage from a "fiery bolts" Flame Arrow would be maximised. It's Conjuration (Creation).

Spiritual Weapon is Evocation, but it behaves a lot like a summoned creature - it moves, attacks, rolls a die for damage.

The Faithful Hound is not a summoned creature; the spell is Conjuration (Creation), not Summoning or Calling. It creates a "phantom watchdog" that attacks and rolls dice for damage.

How is this different to the created Flame Arrow, or the Spiritual Weapon that makes melee attacks?

Are your rulings "gut feelings", or can you justify them in greater detail?

-Hyp.

First of all, from a rules standpoint, the school of the spell is irrelevant. What matters is the details in the spell description.

Maximize Spell [Metamagic]

Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of a maximized spell are maximized. A maximized spell deals maximum damage, cures the maximum number of hit points, affects the maximum number of targets, etc., as appropriate. Spells without random variables are not affected.


Any variable effects contained in the spell description are maximised. Summon Monster can only varies the number of summoned creatures, not their damage or anything else. Whereas as Mord's Faithful Hound...

From the spell description


If an intruder approaches to within 5 feet of the watchdog, the dog stops barking and delivers a vicious bite (+10 attack bonus, 2d6+3 points of damage) once per round.

So the bite damage is maximised. I agree it seems rather counterintuitive for one summoning spell to be maximised in this way, while others are not. But Mord's Hound is a quite specialised spell - you bring a specific creature to perform a specfic task, and the specifics are detailed in the spell description. Monster Summoning is far more versatile, you can ask monsters to do pretty much anything that they are able to do normally.

Think of it like this - the hound's bite damage is intrinsic to the spell. The hound guards things, and it does this by biting intruders (and barking of course). Summoned monsters are often required to attack and deal damage, but that is not an intrinisc function of the spell. All the spell really does is bring the monsters to you.

 

[Henrix]

Yes, silly as it may seem, a maximized Faithful Hound would always deal 15 hits per succesful bite, just as a maximized Acid Arrow deals 8 hits per round, both being Conjuration (Creation) spells.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I agree it seems rather counterintuitive for one summoning spell to be maximised in this way, while others are not.

... or it would, if it were in fact a Summoning spell.

But it's not, so there's no problem

(That was the point I was getting at by giving the schools above.)

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Shillelagh? 10 points per strike?

And a stacking question - Shillelagh targets one non-magical club. What would happen if a GMW was cast on the club after Shillelagh went on?

-Hyp.

 

[Arcanus]

I would say that the spell would no longer function once a GMW was cast on it. Simply because its no longer a non-magic weapon, and the player doing it was just trying to be a power gaming tree-hugger.

BUT as a player I would argue that Shillelagh makes it a magic weapon also and that GMW shouldn't cause any problems. You could do some damage with that. Also if it did work, there is a new spell in some D20 product that makes wooden weapons bypass any metal armor. The above combination could do alot for a Druid.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

The Faithful Hound is not a summoned creature; the spell is Conjuration (Creation), not Summoning or Calling. It creates a "phantom watchdog" that attacks and rolls dice for damage.

How is this different to the created Flame Arrow, or the Spiritual Weapon that makes melee attacks?

My criterea was whether or not you control or direct the spell effect or the attacks. You do not with the Hound or summoned monsters, but you do with the Spiritual Weapon or a Flame Arrow. I could be wrong.

 

[Stalker0]

My 2 cents is that since your creating the hound with the spell, then all variable numerical effects should be maximised.