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Maxwell's Silver Hammer: On Spells, Design, and the feeling of Sameyness in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7916821" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>[USER=205]@TwoSix[/USER] :</p><p></p><p><u>PALADIN</u>:</p><p></p><p><strong>Purify Food and Drink</strong></p><p>Ok, Cleric it is for both of us then. I'll update my spreadsheet for your information so they match.</p><p></p><p><strong>Locate Object</strong></p><p>So this will be listed as Cleric for us both then.</p><p></p><p><strong>Create Food and Water</strong></p><p>Also moved to Cleric on your list now.</p><p></p><p><strong>Dispel Magic</strong></p><p>Your comment on a Cleric being a caster-beater was the reason I kept Silence in with Cleric, it doesn't stop magic, but thwarts Wizards from casting many spells.</p><p></p><p><strong>Locate Creature</strong></p><p>We will have to continue the discussion on this. With Locate Object under Cleric, Locate Creature under Druid, it is too bad there isn't a third "Locate" spell we could put into Wizard. I'll add this to the "Further Discussion List".</p><p></p><p><u>RANGER</u>:</p><p></p><p><strong>Darkvision</strong></p><p>I like your reasoning for giving Cleric the physical enhancement spells (also why I gave them Enhance Ability), so I'll move my Darkvision to Cleric.</p><p></p><p><strong>Find Traps</strong></p><p>Historical precedence is a good reason IMO, but I am thinking in terms of the classes and not giving Rangers access to this spell is probably ok since the Ranger will likely have good Perception/Investigation as were Clerics and Paladins might not--so relying on magic for them makes sense. I'll move to Cleric.</p><p></p><p><strong>Silence</strong></p><p>We can discuss it further, but I still like Cleric for this for a couple reasons. 1) Historic precedence and 2) Wizards already have the major shutdown and giving at least one of the caster class the potential is a better thing for balance. Added to the further discussion list.</p><p></p><p><strong>Water Walk</strong></p><p>Yeah, the Water -> Druid thing makes perfect sense, but for other reasons I think moving it to Cleric is good for balance among other things. I'll move yours to Cleric.</p><p></p><p><strong>Freedom of Movement</strong></p><p>You went with Wizard, and I with Druid, but then you responded "Yea, <em>cleric</em> is probably better here." So, are you thinking Cleric or Druid? I'm still going with Druid for now, but definitely open to your point so let me know. Added to further discussion.</p><p></p><p><strong>Stoneskin</strong></p><p>Yep, stone -> Druid, makes sense; but this is a classic Wizard spell for me. You mentioned history could win out, but we can discuss it more.</p><p></p><p><u>SORCERER</u>:</p><p></p><p><strong>Comprehend Languages</strong></p><p>True, Wizards are good about the ritual casting thing... I'm fine with this going to Wizards.</p><p></p><p><strong>Expeditious Retreat</strong></p><p>I left this with Wizards <em>because</em> they should have an answer to everything LOL. Also, with Druids having Misty Step (which is normally only S,War,W), it felt balanced leaving this with Wizard. Added to the discuss further list.</p><p></p><p><strong>False Life</strong></p><p>Interesting. I've been spreading out necro spells amoung all three for different reasons. I don't want to remove too many from Cleric (otherwise, evil cleric becomes druid...). Adding to the discuss list.</p><p></p><p><strong>Ice Knife</strong></p><p>Although a elemental-type sorcerer spell, I don't mind this staying with Druid instead of Wizard. It could go either way and I think list balance will affect it. Both classes have sufficient blasting spells anyway. Discuss more later.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sleep</strong></p><p>Sigh... yeah, despite the fey-aspect, this is just too iconic a Wizard spell to leave them. I moved it to Wizard.</p><p></p><p><strong>Thunderwave</strong></p><p>Hmm... I get leaving it with Wizard, but I am inclined to keep it in Cleric. I'll have to think about it more and keep it on the discuss list for now.</p><p></p><p><u>FURTHER DISCUSSION:</u></p><p></p><p>Locate Object</p><p>Locate Creature</p><p>Silence</p><p>Freedom of Movement</p><p>Stoneskin</p><p>Expeditious Retreat</p><p>False Life</p><p>Ice Knife</p><p>Thunderwave</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 7916821, member: 6987520"] [USER=205]@TwoSix[/USER] : [U]PALADIN[/U]: [B]Purify Food and Drink[/B] Ok, Cleric it is for both of us then. I'll update my spreadsheet for your information so they match. [B]Locate Object[/B] So this will be listed as Cleric for us both then. [B]Create Food and Water[/B] Also moved to Cleric on your list now. [B]Dispel Magic[/B] Your comment on a Cleric being a caster-beater was the reason I kept Silence in with Cleric, it doesn't stop magic, but thwarts Wizards from casting many spells. [B]Locate Creature[/B] We will have to continue the discussion on this. With Locate Object under Cleric, Locate Creature under Druid, it is too bad there isn't a third "Locate" spell we could put into Wizard. I'll add this to the "Further Discussion List". [U]RANGER[/U]: [B]Darkvision[/B] I like your reasoning for giving Cleric the physical enhancement spells (also why I gave them Enhance Ability), so I'll move my Darkvision to Cleric. [B]Find Traps[/B] Historical precedence is a good reason IMO, but I am thinking in terms of the classes and not giving Rangers access to this spell is probably ok since the Ranger will likely have good Perception/Investigation as were Clerics and Paladins might not--so relying on magic for them makes sense. I'll move to Cleric. [B]Silence[/B] We can discuss it further, but I still like Cleric for this for a couple reasons. 1) Historic precedence and 2) Wizards already have the major shutdown and giving at least one of the caster class the potential is a better thing for balance. Added to the further discussion list. [B]Water Walk[/B] Yeah, the Water -> Druid thing makes perfect sense, but for other reasons I think moving it to Cleric is good for balance among other things. I'll move yours to Cleric. [B]Freedom of Movement[/B] You went with Wizard, and I with Druid, but then you responded "Yea, [I]cleric[/I] is probably better here." So, are you thinking Cleric or Druid? I'm still going with Druid for now, but definitely open to your point so let me know. Added to further discussion. [B]Stoneskin[/B] Yep, stone -> Druid, makes sense; but this is a classic Wizard spell for me. You mentioned history could win out, but we can discuss it more. [U]SORCERER[/U]: [B]Comprehend Languages[/B] True, Wizards are good about the ritual casting thing... I'm fine with this going to Wizards. [B]Expeditious Retreat[/B] I left this with Wizards [I]because[/I] they should have an answer to everything LOL. Also, with Druids having Misty Step (which is normally only S,War,W), it felt balanced leaving this with Wizard. Added to the discuss further list. [B]False Life[/B] Interesting. I've been spreading out necro spells amoung all three for different reasons. I don't want to remove too many from Cleric (otherwise, evil cleric becomes druid...). Adding to the discuss list. [B]Ice Knife[/B] Although a elemental-type sorcerer spell, I don't mind this staying with Druid instead of Wizard. It could go either way and I think list balance will affect it. Both classes have sufficient blasting spells anyway. Discuss more later. [B]Sleep[/B] Sigh... yeah, despite the fey-aspect, this is just too iconic a Wizard spell to leave them. I moved it to Wizard. [B]Thunderwave[/B] Hmm... I get leaving it with Wizard, but I am inclined to keep it in Cleric. I'll have to think about it more and keep it on the discuss list for now. [U]FURTHER DISCUSSION:[/U] Locate Object Locate Creature Silence Freedom of Movement Stoneskin Expeditious Retreat False Life Ice Knife Thunderwave [/QUOTE]
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