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me finally making the big monk discussion thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8211965" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>There are only two versions of D&D where the Monk is even vaguely good - 4e and 5e. And that's because the Monk has an identity in both of the Wire-Fu Master - which is something you do. 3.X was groping towards that - but the magic item Christmas tree deprecated its options (the easier it is to fly the less useful wire fu) and the full attacks opposing movement was a huge problem. Meanwhile the 1e Monk? Let's not go there.</p><p></p><p>The 5e monk does however have a practical game design problem in that levels 7, 8, 9, and 10 are all extremely meh. And that's an extremely long stretch at an extremely bad time to have an entirely meh list of advancements.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 8 is an ASI - which (as for fighter, rogue, and barbarian) is lame compared to the casters getting one because they also get something new at the same time.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Levels 7 and 10 are defensive abilities, most of which simply let you no-sell things that very rarely appear. Evasion's about as good as a passive ability gets. Charmed and frightened are rare. As for that matter are poison and disease.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 9 is the ability to run up walls and over water. Excellent ... except that it isn't often needed and wizards have been able to cast spider climb since level 3 if they can be bothered (which they normally can't because it's not a common enough situation to go in their spellbooks) while the water walking is exceptionally limited.</li> </ul><p>I'm not saying that any of these are terrible. But they're all Ranger-level mediocre without even gaining higher level spells. And more to the point almost all of them are passives. There needs to be something punchier in there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8211965, member: 87792"] There are only two versions of D&D where the Monk is even vaguely good - 4e and 5e. And that's because the Monk has an identity in both of the Wire-Fu Master - which is something you do. 3.X was groping towards that - but the magic item Christmas tree deprecated its options (the easier it is to fly the less useful wire fu) and the full attacks opposing movement was a huge problem. Meanwhile the 1e Monk? Let's not go there. The 5e monk does however have a practical game design problem in that levels 7, 8, 9, and 10 are all extremely meh. And that's an extremely long stretch at an extremely bad time to have an entirely meh list of advancements. [LIST] [*]Level 8 is an ASI - which (as for fighter, rogue, and barbarian) is lame compared to the casters getting one because they also get something new at the same time. [*]Levels 7 and 10 are defensive abilities, most of which simply let you no-sell things that very rarely appear. Evasion's about as good as a passive ability gets. Charmed and frightened are rare. As for that matter are poison and disease. [*]Level 9 is the ability to run up walls and over water. Excellent ... except that it isn't often needed and wizards have been able to cast spider climb since level 3 if they can be bothered (which they normally can't because it's not a common enough situation to go in their spellbooks) while the water walking is exceptionally limited. [/LIST] I'm not saying that any of these are terrible. But they're all Ranger-level mediocre without even gaining higher level spells. And more to the point almost all of them are passives. There needs to be something punchier in there. [/QUOTE]
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