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me finally making the big monk discussion thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Lycurgon" data-source="post: 8211988" data-attributes="member: 7025583"><p>Monks aren't terrible and can be a lot of fun to play. But I think there are a few fundamental issues that that cause problems.</p><p></p><p>First I will state that I think the balance of Ki points is off. I think they don't get enough at low levels and get more than enough at high level. I think they need an extra column added to their level chart with the Ki points the get which should not be equal to level. Maybe based on 2x Proficiency Bonus might work but is possibly too much at level 1 and 2. In addition some subclasses need an added pool of points that can only be used to fuel their subclass features. If 4 Element Monks had an extra pool of point that only worked for their spell they could be an effect and fun option rather than a waste of space.</p><p>Also being a short rest resource has its own issues. Most classes are long rest based so many party are reluctant to take short rests as often as short rest classes need even when there is no downside to resting, people that gain nothing from them often don't want to take them (my current warlock character feels this pain).</p><p></p><p>Secondly, and perhaps more significantly, is the lack of reliance on equipment and therefore lack of equipment based improvement options. While a 1 level Monk may be comparable to a starting martial class in the AC front, Fighters and such will quickly be able to afford new mundane armour and improve their AC. Also other martials are more likely to get magic items that help their damage output. Even if a Monk opts for a Monk weapon and gets a magical one (something that doesn't always fit the image players are aiming for if they want a Unarmed martial artist) the weapon can't be used for the Monks bonus and flurry attacks. So the Fighters get their flameblades and magic armour and the Monks are still punching people with their bare fists and relying on the few ASIs to increase their AC.</p><p>Monks need more magic item support. They need magic Monk Robe armour and magic fist wraps or similar items to improve their attacks and AC. Without that they fall behind other classes with access to such things.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't take a lot to make Monks as good other class options.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lycurgon, post: 8211988, member: 7025583"] Monks aren't terrible and can be a lot of fun to play. But I think there are a few fundamental issues that that cause problems. First I will state that I think the balance of Ki points is off. I think they don't get enough at low levels and get more than enough at high level. I think they need an extra column added to their level chart with the Ki points the get which should not be equal to level. Maybe based on 2x Proficiency Bonus might work but is possibly too much at level 1 and 2. In addition some subclasses need an added pool of points that can only be used to fuel their subclass features. If 4 Element Monks had an extra pool of point that only worked for their spell they could be an effect and fun option rather than a waste of space. Also being a short rest resource has its own issues. Most classes are long rest based so many party are reluctant to take short rests as often as short rest classes need even when there is no downside to resting, people that gain nothing from them often don't want to take them (my current warlock character feels this pain). Secondly, and perhaps more significantly, is the lack of reliance on equipment and therefore lack of equipment based improvement options. While a 1 level Monk may be comparable to a starting martial class in the AC front, Fighters and such will quickly be able to afford new mundane armour and improve their AC. Also other martials are more likely to get magic items that help their damage output. Even if a Monk opts for a Monk weapon and gets a magical one (something that doesn't always fit the image players are aiming for if they want a Unarmed martial artist) the weapon can't be used for the Monks bonus and flurry attacks. So the Fighters get their flameblades and magic armour and the Monks are still punching people with their bare fists and relying on the few ASIs to increase their AC. Monks need more magic item support. They need magic Monk Robe armour and magic fist wraps or similar items to improve their attacks and AC. Without that they fall behind other classes with access to such things. It doesn't take a lot to make Monks as good other class options. [/QUOTE]
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