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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8215885" data-attributes="member: 6778210">I mean, that's not really a comparison. Boxers and Kung Fu Masters are both martial artists, using similar techniques. This isn't just me "reflavoring" insomuch as finding something that is spiritually similar and using that as a base.Yes, and the class can have the identity of "martial artist" and not just "eastern martial artist". It allows for way more variety in what they can do. Why not? Are boxers not martial artists? Do you not think they have their own feats of strength associated with them? This seems like a very arbitrary limit.God no. First off, the boxer has way more in common with the Monk than the Fighter in 5E and I don't even understand how this is an argument. Why have the fighter "lose proficiencies for "Unarmored Defense: Int" when you can just use the Monk chassis? The Monk chassis also has built-in advancement for unarmed attacks, which is yet another thing you'd have to take from the Monk and add to the Fighter.The Monk works for Western Martial Artists incredibly well. The class would do well to simply diversify a bit more; it'd help it thematically within settings as well to have more options than just Eastern Martial Arts.If you can only think of a Monk in terms of Eastern Martial Arts, then you're trying to tell me that it's not a problem that this class can't effectively do grappling arts like Judo? Seriously? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /><img src="https://media2.giphy.com/media/1APe4PzFn4OLVoRCJp/source.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="width: 372px" />Not how I'd do it, but it's a start, I suppose.I mean, honestly we need to just start giving them features instead of Ki stuff because honestly it sucks to have all these moves and not enough ki to use them. Ki is a good idea, but the devs were very over-reliant on using it to try and balance the whole class and now it's acting as a bottleneck for it.Eh? Some things you need training for. The grapple rules are serviceable, but like the combat they could use some spice.Unarmed combat should be the monk thing. Trying to add anything that isn't Eastern Martial Arts just makes the Fighter class more of a mess than it already is; trying to retrofit it for unarmed combat when you have class that already does that more than adequately doesn't make sense.Hell, in a nighttime skirmish they're nightmarish, especially if the enemy tries to be clever with Darkvision and starts turning out light sources. My brother used one to rather frustrating effect in such a manner: they had a light crossbow with Crossbow Expert and engaged some hobgoblins in a border fort at distance. He'd fire twice then relocate before they could figure out where he was. He managed to distract the entire place while the rest of the party snuck in.</blockquote>

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