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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sammael" data-source="post: 5612872" data-attributes="member: 4475">[MENTION=5]Mark_CMG[/MENTION]:You are right, I feel the need to relay how things work in my revision because, for the most part, my revision reflects my stance on many system issues. But, let's go to back to system neutral (insofar as it is actually possible).How else would you cap and differentiate skills in a class-based system if not by class? I'm curious... Passive learning in an adventuring context, I think, is far more successful and meaningful than passive learning in everyday life. For example, over the course of his career, pretty much every adventurer (regardless of class) will have to:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Climb a wall, rock, or tree, jump over a pit or a crevasse, balance on a slippery surface or uneven floor</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Negotiate, lie, cheat, and deceive other people or monsters</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Deal with cults and churches of all sorts</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Resist and witness a number of different magical effects</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fight similar monsters multiple times, learning their specific strengths and weaknesses</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stand guard over his comrades, observing the surroundings</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Search for treasure, traps, or hidden passages</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exchange information for other information or money</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Trek through the wilderness</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use a strange magical item</li> </ul>That's a pretty wide range of skills, and I just pulled all those samples without much effort. I'm sure a think tank such as ENWorld could compile a huge list of common adventuring tropes. Furthermore, becoming a high-level character is a huge accomplishment; not many characters make it that far. In order to reach such heights, each character must learn to be at least a little (and here we likely differ on what constitutes "little") self-sufficient when in comes to pretty much everything. Imagine a 20th level character who gets ripped off at the market because he did not invest anything in the skill that governs negotiation (despite having participated - passively or actively - in a huge number of negotiations by that point). Is it possible that he learned nothing through observation? I don't think so. In an ideal RPG (from my POV), every character would progress using a "learn by doing" method (with optional off-screen training rules). I tried building one such system and it became a bookkeeping nightmare. So, I'll settle for "passive learning" as the next best thing that reflects all the little things somebody learns that are outside of his or her core competency.</blockquote>

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