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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 5617257" data-attributes="member: 5038">My position is that once you are assigning points to meet a concept, you are optimizing.  You can optimize to best represent the greatest underwater basket weaver, an apprentice mystic warrior that grew up a farm boy and has a knack for horseback riding,  or a super strong barbarian that escaped slavery as a pit fighter. Then again, in my opinion, optimization exists on a continuum The 8 con fighter might not bother me depending upon the other aspects of the character.  Then again, I have no problem envisioning a fighter with a strength of 12 or 13 and think many fighters of media fall in that range. I am , however, trying to picture a bard with only 12 Cha and having difficulty.</blockquote>