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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JeffB" data-source="post: 6935881" data-attributes="member: 518">We played the PFBB for about a year- Then a hybrid of S&W and Moldvay Basic for about another year. These kids are NOT into rules. They , to this day, have had no desire to grab a rulebook and optimize or even n spend more than a couple minutes looking at a new spell, or power or class ability. They are motivated by adventure/story/exploration and don't care for things that make the game run slower, or complicate things (thus now our game of choice is DW). They are the complete opposite of nearly every person on this messageboard <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  They look at the game as alot of families look at Monopoly. Play it here and there, have fun, never give it a second thought until we pull out the board again.Where I think the kids grokked 4e (Essentials) easier was in the following 1) Power structure basically same for everyone. Every character works in same manner. It was much easier for them to get "I can do this once a day, this every new combat, and this every combat round, and help each other at the table.2) concise rules laid out on a small card for each power and no needing to reference rulebooks for feats/spell description. Having to find something in the books drives us all apeshit. This was key for them. For them and me this was critical, the powers drove them to more interesting combat. When they had to come up with cool moves themselves, they did not seem confident in knowing how this feat or that pf combat maneuver would work, and so they often just said "I attack....".  They didn't want to study rulebooks and with 4e the stuff they needed was right there easy peasy in front of their face.3) players roll all attacks- no "saves" ala tsr/osr/3e/5e3.1) They do seem to want to control their own dice destiny. Thus they love DW and when we do run an osr game or 5e  I have adopted defense rolls and such. But thats just a side note.After awhile we went back to OSR variants and then 5e , and I could tell it just didn't float their boat,.especially for the two playing Spellcasters. Nowadays we tend to either play something super simple like White Box (White Star has been super fun) , or Dungeon World.So I'm not sure why all those things worked out the way they did, but I always addressed their needs and we have had a ton of fun. Nowadays though, they are too interested in girls and sports,  getting ready for college so we don't play as often as I would like. I get it, but it makes me sad <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />I won't get into all the reasons I preferred 4e, but we had alot more fun with it, once I made the needed house rules on my side. (I essentially- npi- 13thAged it before 13A came out- making it far less grid focused- which they don't like)</blockquote>

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