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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 6935944" data-attributes="member: 6704184">My experience is completely the opposite. New players have no issues grasping the powers, keywords, action economy, etc. 5e is noticeably more work in that aspect for every new player I've witnessed. The 4e basic rules are pretty simple, and powers have all the rules you need printed on them. I can't even fathom how you could say that referencing the powers is the same as having to open the book and look up a rule. It's just miles simpler to read a thing on your character sheet than it is to look up one or more rules in the book, and the power tells you exactly how to use it. Im not saying 4e doesn't have complexity or any learning curve, but I am saying that nothing in 4e is as needlessly complicated or annoying for new players (as always, IME/IMO), as spellcasting, spell slots, spell levels, etc in 5e or any other edition. Also the 4e action economy, at worst, had players forgetting they could take one of the less upfront actions, like interrupts. 5e action economy confuses every new person I've seen play 5e. Every one. Ok, how does movement work again? I can move in between doing other things? And some stuff doesn't require any action? Wait what is a bonus action? I was surprised at how much these questions come up. I wasn't surprised at how confusing the spell stuff was. Also, classes working so differently definately makes a difference. In 4e, anyone at the table can help a confused player remember how something works, because what isn't printed on the character sheet is generally shared across classes. Everyone has the same actions, an encounter power is always an encounter power, etc. OTOH, like tony said, old players...many just hit a wall. And often it was stuff that just had a different presentation or something, but actually worked pretty much the same. I mean, if you reformat powers to read like either spells or class features, and change "encounter" and "daily" to "must take short/long rest", 4e looks A LOT less different. The biggest actual difference is spellcasting. And it's vastly simpler in 4e. but no edition of DnD is simple compared to the simple DnD clones, or a lot of other games.</blockquote>

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