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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 6935964" data-attributes="member: 6704184">Im inclined to agree with the bolded part. things like the artificer could be done as subclasses for a handful of different classes, but it will not be half as good as it would be as a full class. Same with the "warlord", and IMO, assassin. I do think a solid gish class is still needed. IMO, divine classes don't count, and clerics are my least favorite class in the game. Maybe tied with fighter. A swordmage class could combine frontliner defenses and proficienies with arcane spellcasting, and the scag cantrips, and from level one, no tinkering or taking human for the feat required, just be a gish. "Out of the box", as it were. Said class could also include an arcane archer, and maybe something more outside the box.  For me, warlock comes closest because you don't need blade pact to be a gish. Make your first two invocations give you at will mage armor, and false life, and use the scag cantrips. Level 2 gish ain't bad. My group starts at lvl 3, though. So for us, the EK and AT are fine gish options. for the most part.</blockquote>