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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JeffB" data-source="post: 6936001" data-attributes="member: 518">[MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION]For the two who always play spellcasters- Vancian is a big issue. A essentials Mage or warpriest is easier to play vs. Pf/5e until you get towards the end of heroic tier in 4e and then there is some analysis paralysis, especially with the warpriest. With pf/bb and 5e this occurs sooner with casters.Vancian casting/slots is not fun for them, and having a few pages of spells printed out (of course, I make all kinds of helper tools available no matter system) makes their eyes glaze over (DCC also caused this).My son almost always plays a greatweapon fighter, and the 4e Slayer is preferred. The 5e Champion is OK to him, but he found it tame/boring compared to the Slayer. He likes those power attacks and beserker charges, big crits with his magic greatsword etc. He never wants to go back to a PF Fighter with  too many "you have to give up this, to get that" feats..or "you have to get this feat and that feat and that feat to really do what you want to do this round". 4e again, most straightforward and hits on preferences too..The final player drifts back and forth between rogue and ranger. He likes stealthy sneaky stuff. He is the most indecisive/inclined to  get frustrated with rules. I generally give him something akin to a 4e companion character, no matter what system. So certainly there is SOME preference in the way 4e handles some things as far as class badassery goes but the way the system works on a fundamental  level makes the most sense to them. Other versions are more restrictive, add in a layer or three of compexity (spellcasters, feat trees and feats that are not "on" all the time),  and/or just don't seem as straightforward to them. They are pokemon and video game kids and that may play into it too. They can just choose what they want, and have a very effective character, no need for system mastery/optimization/planning. At this point though, the rigid actions/action economies and various  subsystems and whatnot of most ANY D&D seems restrictive and "not much fun" to them. DW has spolied us all and so I tend to run that.My own preferences however, are not always in line with theirs. These are simply my observations DM'ing them since 2010. Frankly I think if there were not options out there besides "classic" D&D..and I include PF and 5e as "classic", I think they would have lost interest completely 3-4  years ago. 4e,13A, DW are all vastly preferred.</blockquote>

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