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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6936089" data-attributes="member: 996">Valor Bard, Bladesinger if we want to include SCAG.  Then there's the option of allowing MC.Oh, and that, yes, thankyou Sacrosanct.  And playing with Backgrounds to slip a little fighter into your magic-user, or vice-versa.The spell lists are pretty different.  They stereotypical fighter/magic-user didn't go around laying on hands.Completely new players, yes, more easily than they'd grasp the older versions of the game.  Anyone used to the classic game, though, could be given fits by those same things.  Even 5e, classic-referent as it bends over backwards to be, presents a casting system that I've seen briefly perplex long-time/returning players.Every RPG is complex relative to other gaming options.  Even simplistic rules or choosing outright freestyle RP doesn't remove that complexity, it's just a complex activity.  Good rules, though, reduce needless complexity.  The sticking point then becomes 'need.'  Yes, 5e /needs/ a lot of traditional sources of complexity that would seem 'needless' when analyzed from certain perspectives - like ease of learning, consistency, balance or depth of play - but the expectations that seasoned fans bring to the table absolutely demand them.</blockquote>