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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9841722" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Then that should be done in advance, no? Don't waste your INCREDIBLY precious design time on "what do people even WANT?" Get that part done before your design deadline is set in stone.Like I don't understand why ANYONE would start a project, and only then, after they're already embarked, only then ask, "Okay, what should our project be?"Frankly, I don't see much difference between the two. The former was a hodgepodge of quixotic, schizophrenic pieces that often actively resisted cooperating with one another. That's not a good thing, nor something to aspire to. I am not saying this because I look down on the design chops of Gygax or whomever else, to be clear. I think Gygax was actually a very savvy designer! He designed for goals that I don't personally care for, but that's irrelevant to whether his designs achieved the goals he sought. As long as you were told how to use them correctly (something he was unquestionably terrible at doing in textual form), they did exactly that--which means they were good design. Sometimes brilliant, even, especially in the context of the time.But let us not pretend that it would be any kind of improvement to go back to designing every single rule as its own bespoke subsystem that gives no real concern to any other existing bespoke subsystem.Okay? I have no idea what your point is with this claim. So...I can't really respond to it. Instead, have the below as something to discuss; if you wish to clarify your intent with this line, I'll happily respond.I had previously put these two paragraphs at the end of the previous post, as an edit, but you had replied during that span of time, so I'm putting it here instead. Topic: Designers wasting far too much time.Like, let me give you an example here. It took them nearly two entire years just to get the Fighter (and most of Rogue) to where they wanted it to be. They spent nearly a year just trying to make Specialties work, only to abandon them far too late to find any kind of replacement. That's far, far worse than just "this is a difficult thing and stuff takes time". That's genuinely not having a schedule, not having internal deadlines for when critical components need to be finished. The Fighter should have been finished within the first year of public playtesting. It's a tentpole, benchmark class--it needs to be done early so everything else can fall in line. Likewise, the Cleric, as the benchmark healer/support (even if it does other things!) needs to be done early so that other, subsequent developments are soundly-structured.Waiting until almost the very end of your public playtest period to finalize the "core four" speaks of very poor time management--no/inadequate internal deadlines, no/inadequate review process for addressing time-overruns, no/inadequate consequences for dithering and wasting time. I'm not saying I would automatically be better at organizing this than they would; I'm sure I'd be terrible at it because I don't know the first thing about publishing a book, and they certainly know more than that. But I don't need to be a rocket scientist to tell that a rocket missed its launch window. I don't need to be an accountant to know that spending more money than you earn is going to put you in debt. And I don't need to be a project manager to know that taking 3/4 of your allotted project time just to finish the first steps of building your game means you've failed to keep on schedule.</blockquote>

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