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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 5479641" data-attributes="member: 58197">Charm spells were never good at taking enemies out of a fight. There was usually a clause about hostile actions breaking the effect; in 3.5 any threat from you or your allies against the charmed creature broke the spell (and you got a +5 to save if you were in combat when the spell was cast).The point of charm magic was to be a non-combat effect. The succubus works her wiles on you and you become entranced, not a dominated thrall but not entirely free-willed either; she can worm secrets out of you, induce you to help her out in seemingly harmless ways, and so forth. In combat, the 4E version works out okay. Out of combat, it's mostly useless unless the DM makes up an entire new ability to cover it. If you want to do that making-up, more power to you; but I would prefer to have guidelines from people who've put some thought into it and tested it in play. That is, after all, why we pay money for this stuff.I have a tough time imagining hard-and-fast rules for charm magic that could be made to work--charm spells are "social magic," which is a fuzzy area by its nature. But there is a wide range of options between "hard-and-fast rules" and "no rules at all."</blockquote>