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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5480453" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think you guys have maybe gotten a little too theoretical? At least for my tastes, lol.Here's the thing though, I don't think 4e is so much about stepping up to bigger challenges. Character advancement at least really isn't about that. The challenge level of the game is pretty much designed to be the same at all levels. An orc is a stiff challenge for a 1st level PC, and Orcus is (well, should be) a stiff challenge for a 30th level PC. You can push yourself as a player when you feel like it, but advancement is more a narrative device than anything else. You're a farmer's son, you hack up a whole bunch of monsters etc and you evolve into a mythic hero. Sure you have more powers, hit points, etc, but that's just all fluff really, a device to give an appearance of progress. I don't know what the nature of short rests or any of that even has to do with it.IMHO what seems to drive all these debates is 4e's emphasis on using a fairly fixed set of mechanics and asking you to build the narrative around that instead of attempting to drop the job of running a world simulator on the DM, at least in combat. But note that this is VERY much limited to what happens during combat and to a lesser extent other challenges. All it is for is to lighten the load on the DM, and look at 4e, almost every DM that runs it says the same thing, it is a game with a much lighter DM load than 3.x. The thing is, the story is every bit as much in the hands of the people at the table and they play fundamentally the same roles as they ever have. At best you're splitting some VERY fine hairs here. Table dynamics have MUCH less to do with rule systems than with who's at the table anyway. The differences between versions of D&D for example are really pretty trivial unless you're drilling down to the smallest details. My group will play through a 4e or 3.5 or other systems adventure in pretty much the same way. I know this, we've been doing it since around 1980... I just don't obsess about rules, they aren't that important.</blockquote>

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