Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5471097" data-attributes="member: 957">First, please keep the context of the post I was replying to in mind.The word &quot;involved&quot; was specifically offered in context of talking about gaming as an excuse to get together with friends and specifically in contrast to &quot;dive[ing] down into the more detailed levels&quot;.&nbsp; You are ignoring that context.Second, if you still think that I am remotely trying to deny anything despite the fact that my second post very directly addresses that claim, then you either are not paying attention or you are trying to change my point into something you have an easier time challenging.4E was strongly marketed as &quot;for new players&quot;, &quot;easy to DM&quot;, etc, etc.I think both the &quot;less involved&quot; (note: &quot;less&quot; does not mean absolute removal) and the &quot;non-simulationist&quot; elements are not themselves cause and effect but, rather, are both effects of this design philosophy cause.Are you going to try to force absolute terms on me a third time?(And, though it isn't really relevant, there are absolutely people who very strongly argue that 3E and 4E are equivalent in regards to simulation.&nbsp; As a matter of fact, there are people that insist that they are both equal in being excellent simulation games and people who insist they are equal as not even trying to be simulations.&nbsp; But, again, not really relevant other than as a point of clarification.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5471097, member: 957"] First, please keep the context of the post I was replying to in mind. The word "involved" was specifically offered in context of talking about gaming as an excuse to get together with friends and specifically in contrast to "dive[ing] down into the more detailed levels". You are ignoring that context. Second, if you still think that I am remotely trying to deny anything despite the fact that my second post very directly addresses that claim, then you either are not paying attention or you are trying to change my point into something you have an easier time challenging. 4E was strongly marketed as "for new players", "easy to DM", etc, etc. I think both the "less involved" (note: "less" does not mean absolute removal) and the "non-simulationist" elements are not themselves cause and effect but, rather, are both effects of this design philosophy cause. Are you going to try to force absolute terms on me a third time? (And, though it isn't really relevant, there are absolutely people who very strongly argue that 3E and 4E are equivalent in regards to simulation. As a matter of fact, there are people that insist that they are both equal in being excellent simulation games and people who insist they are equal as not even trying to be simulations. But, again, not really relevant other than as a point of clarification.) [/QUOTE]

Verification