Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Mearls' Legends and Lore (or, "All Roads Lead to Rome, Redux")
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 5485192" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>Dungeondelver, a quick aside: I'm not quoting your post because I find the font to be difficult to read; a nice font, but it is kind of distracting in this format. Just a bit of unsolicited feedback!</p><p></p><p>That said, interesting post. I can agree with many of the points you make but to be honest I question a lot of it, the tone in particular. I think it well exemplifies that this meta-issue isn't exactly what it seems to be, that people are still upset about things that aren't necessarily what is being talked about. </p><p></p><p>I would take it that you don't disagree with what Mearls says in his article, taken at face value? I mean, it is a nice sentiment, right? What is there to disagree with, really? We're all playing D&D, D&D is sitting down with your friends, it doesn't matter what version you're playing, make it your own, yada yada yada...</p><p></p><p>I completely agree that WotC should sell PDFs of older material. But I find this complaint to be a tad disingenuous when you say something like WotC is "not giving folks an avenue to play the D&D they like." I am sorry, dungeondelver, but that's a bit suspect. First of all, as you yourself said, there are tons of old and used material available. For 3.x, more than a lifetime's worth. </p><p></p><p>Secondly, and probably more importantly, the vast majority of people who want to play an older edition of D&D likely already have tons of gaming material, so their "avenue to play the D&D they like" was never shut down. WotC can't shut it down - it is <em>your </em>avenue. As some have commented, there is a kind of shared illusion in the gaming industry that customers (gamers) need the companies that produce gaming material. They don't. All we need are our imaginations, pencils, paper, dice, maybe a rule book or two - and maybe not even that. </p><p></p><p>You also mention WotC's supposed slandering of older versions of D&D. I might be missing something, but all I remember are a couple tongue-in-cheek comments and/or advertising back in 2008 that said something to the effect that 4E was the newer, better version of D&D and you shouldn't be left out in the cold playing "something else." Are people really upset about that sort of thing? <em>Really? </em>No one seems upset about Paizo's (again, tongue-in-cheek) "3.5E survives/thrives" advertising - nor should they, imo. I think this is a case of overly thin skins.</p><p></p><p>So what I really hear you saying is that you're pissed that WotC doesn't sell their PDFs, although probably mainly as a matter of principle, and possibly <em>actually </em>because you're unhappy with 4E and wish they had stuck with 3.5. I also hear you saying that your feelings are/were hurt with some of their initial advertising comments.</p><p></p><p>To this I can only say: get over it. It is done. Let it go. Bygones be bygones. Compost the sour grapes. Rejoin the larger D&D community--and that means accepting that 4E is the current, in-print, and presumably most popular version of D&D--<strong>and play the D&D that you want. </strong></p><p></p><p>I can tell you with all honesty and full confidence that if WotC announces 5E at GenCon this year and starts in with some "Stop playing that WoW-clone version of D&D and go back to your roots with 5E" and then they stop publishing all things 4E, I'll say "Cool, a new edition, let's check it out and if I don't like it I'll stick with 4E or, better yet, create the hybrid I've always wanted to make." </p><p></p><p>You are, of course, free to continue letting these things bother you, even if they are, well, water under the bridge. Again, I agree that not making PDFs available for donwload is not only a bad PR move, but a poor business decision (as Gary himself explains in your signature). But in the end, 4E is the current version of D&D and WotC is still not making older PDFs available, but at the same time Paizo is supporting 3.5 possibly better than WotC ever did in the form of Pathfinder, and there are tons of retro-clones available, with the internet flooded with used material from all editions of the game. </p><p></p><p>It is a good time to be a D&D player!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 5485192, member: 59082"] Dungeondelver, a quick aside: I'm not quoting your post because I find the font to be difficult to read; a nice font, but it is kind of distracting in this format. Just a bit of unsolicited feedback! That said, interesting post. I can agree with many of the points you make but to be honest I question a lot of it, the tone in particular. I think it well exemplifies that this meta-issue isn't exactly what it seems to be, that people are still upset about things that aren't necessarily what is being talked about. I would take it that you don't disagree with what Mearls says in his article, taken at face value? I mean, it is a nice sentiment, right? What is there to disagree with, really? We're all playing D&D, D&D is sitting down with your friends, it doesn't matter what version you're playing, make it your own, yada yada yada... I completely agree that WotC should sell PDFs of older material. But I find this complaint to be a tad disingenuous when you say something like WotC is "not giving folks an avenue to play the D&D they like." I am sorry, dungeondelver, but that's a bit suspect. First of all, as you yourself said, there are tons of old and used material available. For 3.x, more than a lifetime's worth. Secondly, and probably more importantly, the vast majority of people who want to play an older edition of D&D likely already have tons of gaming material, so their "avenue to play the D&D they like" was never shut down. WotC can't shut it down - it is [I]your [/I]avenue. As some have commented, there is a kind of shared illusion in the gaming industry that customers (gamers) need the companies that produce gaming material. They don't. All we need are our imaginations, pencils, paper, dice, maybe a rule book or two - and maybe not even that. You also mention WotC's supposed slandering of older versions of D&D. I might be missing something, but all I remember are a couple tongue-in-cheek comments and/or advertising back in 2008 that said something to the effect that 4E was the newer, better version of D&D and you shouldn't be left out in the cold playing "something else." Are people really upset about that sort of thing? [I]Really? [/I]No one seems upset about Paizo's (again, tongue-in-cheek) "3.5E survives/thrives" advertising - nor should they, imo. I think this is a case of overly thin skins. So what I really hear you saying is that you're pissed that WotC doesn't sell their PDFs, although probably mainly as a matter of principle, and possibly [I]actually [/I]because you're unhappy with 4E and wish they had stuck with 3.5. I also hear you saying that your feelings are/were hurt with some of their initial advertising comments. To this I can only say: get over it. It is done. Let it go. Bygones be bygones. Compost the sour grapes. Rejoin the larger D&D community--and that means accepting that 4E is the current, in-print, and presumably most popular version of D&D--[B]and play the D&D that you want. [/B] I can tell you with all honesty and full confidence that if WotC announces 5E at GenCon this year and starts in with some "Stop playing that WoW-clone version of D&D and go back to your roots with 5E" and then they stop publishing all things 4E, I'll say "Cool, a new edition, let's check it out and if I don't like it I'll stick with 4E or, better yet, create the hybrid I've always wanted to make." You are, of course, free to continue letting these things bother you, even if they are, well, water under the bridge. Again, I agree that not making PDFs available for donwload is not only a bad PR move, but a poor business decision (as Gary himself explains in your signature). But in the end, 4E is the current version of D&D and WotC is still not making older PDFs available, but at the same time Paizo is supporting 3.5 possibly better than WotC ever did in the form of Pathfinder, and there are tons of retro-clones available, with the internet flooded with used material from all editions of the game. It is a good time to be a D&D player! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Mearls' Legends and Lore (or, "All Roads Lead to Rome, Redux")
Top