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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5498182" data-attributes="member: 42582">The overland travel skill challenge I explained above is an example of this.The challenge was complexity 2 (6 successes before 3 failures). The PCs were leaving the collapsed temple of Baphomet that they had successfully stopped gnolls from rededicating to Yeenoghu (this is from Thunderspire Labyrinth). I had decided that after three successes the PCs arrived at the gnoll shaman's burial ground (this is from the old Basic module Night's Dark Terror), that after five successes that arrived at the ruin with the witches (this was my own encounter) and that after six success they arrived at the village from which they could easily follow the trail to the city they were headed for (this was adapted from Heathen).I had also decided that a failure before the burial ground meant the pursuing gnoll archer on a manticore - whom they knew about and from whom they were trying to hide - got surprise against them while they were at the burial ground. I decided that a failure before either of the next two encounters meant that no extended rest was had before getting to it.As it played out, the first success was the wizard's Arcana check to contain the magic forces collapsing the temple after the ritual was ended - so only the entrance caved in, rather than the entire mountain side. (This obviously makes it less obvious to the flying gnoll that the PCs are departing the temple.) The next I can't remember - maybe group Athletics to climb down the mountain-side, as I think they opted for speed over stealth - and then another check - maybe Nature(?) - which brought them to the burial ground.After the encounter at the burial ground, the next check was a group check - Athletics or Acro - to cross the river, then the Nature check described upthread to find a resting place - this failed at first, then succeeded, as describd upthread. Consequently, no extended rest was gained. The next check then brought the PCs to the witches - I can't remember what it was, perhaps Nature again, or maybe Perception after climbing a tree to scout.Since then, dealing with the witches has occupied several sessions, and so the last check(s) hasn't been made.I don't think this could easily be done in an alternative, simulationist fashion. How would I work out how many Athletics checks are required to descend the mountain slope, for example, or their DCs, or how hard it is to find a satisfactory resting place, without detailed maps and terrain description?I think upthread I may also have described the negotiation skill challenge with the duergar slavers. In any event, resolving a negotiation as a skill challenge means that there is a clear point at which it is over, and some resolution among the parties is reached (a bit like a Duel of Wits in Burning Wheel). In my own experience, freeform resolution via social skill checks doesn't always so straightforwardly lead to finality - it is in fact highly vulnerable to check mongering by either GM or players, and also to overriding the outcome of past checks, as the GM decides that the "natural flow" of circumstances has changed. Whereas the metagame element of skill challengs means that something like "Let it Ride" from Burning Wheel comes into play - if the players have succeeded at a skill challenge negotiation then they have got what they bargained for, and as a general rule the matter is settled (and the GM has to narrate the unfolding gameworld in a corresponding fashion). Just as, in the typical combat victory, the monsters are dead, and the players don't have to worry that five minutes later that GM might decide that circumstances have changed and the monsters suddenly are alive again.EDIT:First - if there is no more conflict left in the situation (for whatever reason) - then the skill challenge obviously is over. Just as if one side in a combat surrenders or flees or decides to become friends with the other (for whatever reason) then the combat is obviously over. The DMG leaves this implicit; DMG2 makes it express.Second, some people think that, at the end of a combat, if one monster having only a handful of hit points is all that's left, and then is hit such that it has only 1 hp left, the GM should just fudge that last hit point and let it die. Others disagree.I think there is a similar spread of opinions in relation to "dead rolls" in a skill challenge.My own tendency is to regard no roll as dead - whether in combat or in a skill challenge, it always creates the possibility of extra complication and therefore interesting development. But I'm not dogmatic about this, and if I ever felt that pacing considerations really pushed the other way I'd be happy to call it differently.In any event, I don't really see this as an issue of following or not following the rules. It's about exercising GM judgment in the interest of keeping the game running smoothly. That it might arise in relation to skill challenges is no more a point against them, then that it might arise in relation to combat is a point against the hit point mechanic. If there was reason to think it might come up frequently in relation to skill challenges compared to combat that would be a different matter, but in my experience the tendency is in fact the opposite to this.</blockquote>

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