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Mearls' Legends and Lore (or, "All Roads Lead to Rome, Redux")
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5500322" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>First, again... we are speaking to the mechanics of the system, not what way a DM can twist, tweak and cajole a system to perform. So that is irrelevant to the discussion we are having.</p><p> </p><p>Hmm, you know what...after reading why you don't think 4e is designed around a gamist philosophy...I think everyone in this thread could use some definitions of the GNS terminology permeton keeps throwing around but not defining...</p><p> </p><p>From Wikipedia on GNS Theory... </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Now with these to refer to, I'm sorry but SC's do nothing that makes their mechanics even remotely narativist... and I would go so far as to say, 4e is designed with a gamist philosophy, not narrativist. Now you can play any game any way you want but nothing in the 4e mechanics support narrative play. To further explain my point let's take an example permeton used up thread which will illustrate why I feel his examples are erroneous and more a product of his playstyle than any rules, the Warlock's Pact...</p><p> </p><p>You see because 4e is gamist and the Warlock class has to be balanced with every other class... the warlock can't ever really face any conflict (mechanically) over his pact... He can't ever loose his pact, doesn't face any hard choices about his pact and it really is just an ability used to balance the class against others. Now you can slap a thick coating of narrativism on top of that class structure and create situations where the Pact becomes a source of conflict for your character... but unless you create houserules... 4e in no way supports this mechanically. In fact I would say the 3.x/PF Paladin is a much better example of mechanics that direct narrative play... the conflict is built into the mechanics of the class. Now whether you enjoy that type of mechanic and whether one feels 3.x/PF did a good job instituting it is something else entirely.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 5500322, member: 48965"] First, again... we are speaking to the mechanics of the system, not what way a DM can twist, tweak and cajole a system to perform. So that is irrelevant to the discussion we are having. Hmm, you know what...after reading why you don't think 4e is designed around a gamist philosophy...I think everyone in this thread could use some definitions of the GNS terminology permeton keeps throwing around but not defining... From Wikipedia on GNS Theory... Now with these to refer to, I'm sorry but SC's do nothing that makes their mechanics even remotely narativist... and I would go so far as to say, 4e is designed with a gamist philosophy, not narrativist. Now you can play any game any way you want but nothing in the 4e mechanics support narrative play. To further explain my point let's take an example permeton used up thread which will illustrate why I feel his examples are erroneous and more a product of his playstyle than any rules, the Warlock's Pact... You see because 4e is gamist and the Warlock class has to be balanced with every other class... the warlock can't ever really face any conflict (mechanically) over his pact... He can't ever loose his pact, doesn't face any hard choices about his pact and it really is just an ability used to balance the class against others. Now you can slap a thick coating of narrativism on top of that class structure and create situations where the Pact becomes a source of conflict for your character... but unless you create houserules... 4e in no way supports this mechanically. In fact I would say the 3.x/PF Paladin is a much better example of mechanics that direct narrative play... the conflict is built into the mechanics of the class. Now whether you enjoy that type of mechanic and whether one feels 3.x/PF did a good job instituting it is something else entirely. [/QUOTE]
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