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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5501444" data-attributes="member: 42582">I said that I think I disagree - "think" is a weaker claim than "know".I also didn't say that I don't know what you're talking about. I said I'm not sure what you have in mind. That is a slightly more polite form of words for "I don't what your evidence is, and am myself inclined to doubt that there is such evidence."The reason I doubt that there is such evidence is because I've read a lot of what the 4e designers have said, and I don't recall anything that I take as evidence for your claim. I was inviting you to adduce your evidence, and/or to confirm my hypothesis that it's the Andy Collins quote.I don't see why "game piece" and "theme" are at odds. One thing a game piece can do is bring with it thematic content. This is basically what Worlds and Monsters is about - it is the only D&D book I know that talks about the fictional elements of D&D as game pieces, that is, as elements to be used by the GM in constructing a game with a particular "vibe and atmosphere" (to borrow a phrase from Mercurius). (One exception: the 4e DMG has this sort of discussion in its Languages section.)Here is the quote from Andy Collins, as per your previous post:Collins says that a game piece (or game element):(i) should have a hook that makes it compelling to play;(ii) should have a story, which is important;(iii) should have compelling mechanics.He doesn't deny that (ii) is an instance of (i). He doesn't deny that (iii) can be achieved, in part, because of its relation to or integration with (ii). And if you look at Worlds and Monsters, you in fact see a discussion of exactly how (i), (ii) and (iii) were intended to be integrated in 4e. Monsters (and, in my view, also classes) are intended mechanics that are tactically interesting and support the story/thematic role of that game element.Has this been achieved perfectly? No - with respect to classes, the archer-ranger is in my view a rather boring class which brings very little to the table in thematic terms, and with respect to monsters I would say that skeletons, for example, don't really bring much either.But the failures don't exhaust the system, and in my view aren't typical of it.</blockquote>

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