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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CuRoi" data-source="post: 5512927" data-attributes="member: 98032">Sort of lost track of this thread, but I mainly wanted to thank you for the example. My players have created a very similar relationship chart, but they did not include every NPC, just the major factions which they then linked back to the party using different colored lines to represent "firendly, neutral, enemy".  I think again that you show you are running a marvelously complex campaign with great detail and advanced story telling. I don't think it thas much to do with the edition and as I've mentioned, I still feel it is done so in spite of the edition, but again we aren't going to agree there so I won't debate it.  I do note, in your example, you chose to use an NPC from a module you liked which had an ability that sounded very much like speak with dead and the NPC would use this to get plot information necessary to the overall goal. I'm just still befuddled why PCs couldn't / shouldn't be allowed to do this as well or how its a "bad thing"? From my experience, it makes them more central to whatever quest they may be working on if they don't have to haul around the DM plot device. Now demons might seek to kidnap one of your players instead of the plot device which would create a very dynamic scenario. To me, thats what you lose when you take away those "I win DnD spells" whcih some people find useful to their stories and others find annoying. I get the idea of "well if the PCs could do it then anyone can so I can't make a story with that schtick in the first place" - Speak with Dead is vague enough to come up with plenty of reasons why say the dead Queen would not speak to a Demon or its minions or why the dead Queen would only speak her true name to someone fulfilling the quest. Also, from my experience, the PCs feel the game world has more life to it if the world revolves whether they are involved or not. If larger events transpire and they can either choose to get caught up in them, avoid them, or sometimes are mercilessly swept up in them, it gives the feeling that they are a part of something substantive which they can interact with but not necessarily control. So I'll keep a mix of ongoing timelines and player instigated plots and not limit myself to one or the other. But again, its whatever works for your group.</blockquote>

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