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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 3380236" data-attributes="member: 3887">You've put a lot of words in my mouth, allow me to take some out...I didn't say "any", or "nonsensical". I didn't say (nor imply) that the players should browbeat the DM. The situations I'm talking about are collaborative. If you disagree with my characterization of (what has been my experience of) typical D&D play, then let's discuss it. Don't get all riled up over words I didn't use.So problem solving can't exist without a formal set of rules? Who decides what constitutes a formal enough set? What about all the problem-solving I did back in previous editions of D&D (or in 3.0+ when the DM set aside the written task resolution system and allowed player input/knowledge to solely decide the outcome)? Did that not really happen because it occurred "outside a system"?Speaking of nonsense...Every D&D campaign I've ever seen, at some level, resembled a violent cartoon, in which characters used outlandish strategies to overcome often equally outlandish obstacles. Unlike a more sensible game, like chess. Again, every campaign I've ever seen or heard of contained an element of the absurd. It's inherent in the game.Where'd this come from? My point was that the rules don't insulate players from a DM with poor judgment.</blockquote>