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<blockquote data-quote="deleteme123456" data-source="post: 4595798" data-attributes="member: 65832">I'll also point out that my S. Burst doesn't completely trump Cloud of Daggers (which is only an OK power anyway)... CoD will still autokill a minion unless the minion somehow slides... but my S. Burst auto-damage is at end of turn, so the minion could move out of the zone.With no feats to improve damage (but assuming a +1 weapon/implement), assuming an 18 stat, the PHB sburst deals near striker-level damage if you have 2 or more targets, even handicapping the wizard to a 55% chance to hit vs ranger 60% [using longsword, and we know that reflex is roughly equal to AC - 2.5, so we'll give the ranger an edge here] vs rogue 75% (dagger, combat advantage from stealth + deft strike).I got SBurst at 9.35 for 2 targets, and approximately 14.0 for 3 targets. Twin Strike with longsword is 9.54 [assuming both swings against your quarry]Deft Strike 10.875For comparison, a fighter's melee basic attack (again with a longsword, 60% to hit) is 5.7.So I'm not nuts about adding damage to SBurst without taking some away, although I have talked to players who say they'd rather have 1d6+int and no control effect and just deal a lot of damage. (Personally I think they just want to be strikers. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />) Another comment was that the enemies could easily avoid the extra damge, to which my reply is that you at least force the enemies to move, and if you're lucky/smart/teamwork, you make them take an OA or waste their entire move shifting.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="deleteme123456, post: 4595798, member: 65832"] I'll also point out that my S. Burst doesn't completely trump Cloud of Daggers (which is only an OK power anyway)... CoD will still autokill a minion unless the minion somehow slides... but my S. Burst auto-damage is at end of turn, so the minion could move out of the zone. With no feats to improve damage (but assuming a +1 weapon/implement), assuming an 18 stat, the PHB sburst deals near striker-level damage if you have 2 or more targets, even handicapping the wizard to a 55% chance to hit vs ranger 60% [using longsword, and we know that reflex is roughly equal to AC - 2.5, so we'll give the ranger an edge here] vs rogue 75% (dagger, combat advantage from stealth + deft strike). I got SBurst at 9.35 for 2 targets, and approximately 14.0 for 3 targets. Twin Strike with longsword is 9.54 [assuming both swings against your quarry] Deft Strike 10.875 For comparison, a fighter's melee basic attack (again with a longsword, 60% to hit) is 5.7. So I'm not nuts about adding damage to SBurst without taking some away, although I have talked to players who say they'd rather have 1d6+int and no control effect and just deal a lot of damage. (Personally I think they just want to be strikers. :)) Another comment was that the enemies could easily avoid the extra damge, to which my reply is that you at least force the enemies to move, and if you're lucky/smart/teamwork, you make them take an OA or waste their entire move shifting. [/QUOTE]

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