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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7759782" data-attributes="member: 6801845">Dude you really need to take a chill pill.  You can explain without getting insulting.  I'm just acknowledging that not all combinations make sense.There are multiple ways of building in different flavors of characters.  With 5E they chose to go with sub-classes so if you're playing a rogue you have 7 sub-classes to choose from.  An assassin is going play different from a swashbuckler is different from an arcane trickster.  Throw in feats, ranged vs melee and so on and there are a lot of choices.  Add multi-classing and there are even more.As far as the champion fighter example, how many do you want?  You can go sword-and-board, great weapon, archer.  Strength based, dex based.  Different backgrounds could give you a hint of rogue, feats and multi-classing can give you options.  If that's not enough do a cavalier instead of a champion.  Are a lot of choices made by level 3? Yep. Could they have gone a different direction? Sure.  I'm simply stating that they achieve the same broad goal using a different approach gives you significant variety. I've played most editions of D&D and to me they're all fairly front-end loaded.  My vision may have changed a bit, but from the moment I sat down with a blank character sheet I had the broad outlines figured out, I don't see 5E being that much different philosophically.  Yes, 4E had different powers, but my experience wasn't really all that different.  If I was a tank fighter, tempest/fighting cleric or a control wizard that choice was built in pretty early on.  The powers that made sense were pretty obvious and made minimal thematic difference. Your experience may have been different of course and I've done my best to forget 4E. If D&D's approach doesn't work for you maybe you should learn to accept it or move on to a different game. No game can cater to every preference. If I understand correctly, what you describe sounds more like GURPs than D&D.</blockquote>

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