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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7759812" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I guess I'm just not sure how much more variety you want.For example with just the champion fighter: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sir Hits-hard wields a maul.  He takes a few more hits because he doesn't use a shield, but wades into combat and swings hard.  He may miss a bit more often than his allies, but when he does it's going to hurt.   Heaven help a wizard that tries to cast a spell while he's next to them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sir Turtle uses his shield to bash enemies to knock them down or away from his allies.  He's tough to hit, so he's trained to stop people in their tracks if they try to run away.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sir Stabemlots uses dual swords, and is able to move around the battlefield without provoking opp attacks.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sir Shootemup doesn't bother wearing heavy armor and likes to hide in the back and uses his enemies as pincushions.  Thanks to growing up on the streets he's also pretty good with lockpicks and hiding in the shadows.</li> </ul>To me, these 4 PCs are significantly different mechanically.  I'm sure I could add a few more.  If you do a human variant you can get the feats from 1st level.I agree they're pretty front loaded.  I just think D&D has always been that way.  For better or worse it's fundamental to the core concepts of the game.  Then again I'm a pretty lenient DM and allow a decent amount of refactoring of a PC's mechanics as long as the character stays the same.  The game is about having fun and if a build isn't working my players are allowed changes or can always bring in a new character.If it's a question of not getting cool options until higher later, maybe you could start at a higher level.  I've done it with experienced players for short-term campaigns.As far as other games, let me rephrase.  What concepts could be pulled in from other games that wouldn't upset the more-or-less balance of 5E?  What kind of variety are you looking for?  Because it seems to me my fighters above would feel very different from level 1 and my descriptions would apply from level 4 on.I hear calls for an Advanced 5E (which I don't think will ever happen because there's not enough of a market) but what would it look like?</blockquote>

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