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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7761549" data-attributes="member: 6919838">But really this is about understanding how the game works.RAW - initiative *is* an ability check, not just something else entirely. that means guidance and a host of other effects can be applied to adjust your initiative check. Also, since it is just an ability check, it can have either advantage or disadvantage applied due to the reasons that allow advantage and disadvantage to be applied. That alone should be HUGE in terms of several of the key providers of advantage and disadvantage - Do circumstances, environmental factors, particular cunning or previous actions give the character an edge  - allowing advantage on the DEX check for initiative?Do circumstantial aspect, environmental factors not already factored in or some aspect of the plan/actions place the character at a diasadvantage or make it more likely they would not go first? if so, disadvantage on the DEX check for initiative.If it were some separate thing all its on, not an ability check, there would be no such clarity that advantage could be applied.i think that for instance a number of the "but we should get surprise" that dont quite really qualify for surprise are very well handled by advantage or disadvantage on init rolls to reflect those "circumstances" or "plans".As an ability check, its also entirely possible for the Gm to invoke the "some progress with setback" as well (theoretically if one was third or lower on the init list) but i for one do not choose to invoke "some progress with setback" on GM called for skill checks usually (some exceptions.)</blockquote>

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