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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5602197" data-attributes="member: 18280">Go back and read his post.I explained why SE-only systems do not work; he said his SE system works because he uses hit points.Go back and read my posts.None of my arguments stem from &quot;the one and only way&quot; -- this is a straw man of the first order.&nbsp; The problems with SE-only systems is not that they cannot model combat, but they are cumbersome, have many of the same problems people attribute to hp systems, and remove contextual choices from players.Hit points are king -- in tabletop and computer gaming -- not because they were first, but because they are best.&nbsp; Computer games can handle to cumbersome nature of SE-only systems extremely well.&nbsp; Most choose to use hit points as well in order to increase the contextual choices available to players.&quot;Context -&gt; Choice -&gt; Consequence&quot; (which leads back into a new, changed, context) is the heart of gaming.&nbsp; IMHO and IME.&quot;There are other ways&quot; is a non-starter.&nbsp; &quot;There are other, better, ways&quot; would make an argument.&nbsp; But, like the gentleman from Missouri says, you would have to show me.&nbsp; I've heard a lot of people claim such an animal exists, but every time I've paid my dime, it's always included hit points in a thin disguise......or something worse than a system which includes hit points.I'll readily agree that an exception is theoretically possible.&nbsp; I know of no instance that demonstrates that such an exception actually exists.&nbsp; When I learn otherwise, I'll be happy to defend (and probably adopt) that system.&nbsp; Because hit points are best today, it doesn't follow that they will remain king forever.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5602197, member: 18280"] Go back and read his post. I explained why SE-only systems do not work; he said his SE system works because he uses hit points. Go back and read my posts. None of my arguments stem from "the one and only way" -- this is a straw man of the first order. The problems with SE-only systems is not that they cannot model combat, but they are cumbersome, have many of the same problems people attribute to hp systems, and remove contextual choices from players. Hit points are king -- in tabletop and computer gaming -- not because they were first, but because they are best. Computer games can handle to cumbersome nature of SE-only systems extremely well. Most choose to use hit points as well in order to increase the contextual choices available to players. "Context -> Choice -> Consequence" (which leads back into a new, changed, context) is the heart of gaming. IMHO and IME. "There are other ways" is a non-starter. "There are other, [B][I]better[/I][/B], ways" would make an argument. But, like the gentleman from Missouri says, you would have to show me. I've heard a lot of people claim such an animal exists, but every time I've paid my dime, it's always included hit points in a thin disguise......or something worse than a system which includes hit points. I'll readily agree that an exception is theoretically possible. I know of no instance that demonstrates that such an exception actually exists. When I learn otherwise, I'll be happy to defend (and probably adopt) that system. Because hit points are best today, it doesn't follow that they will remain king forever. RC [/QUOTE]

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