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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5602471" data-attributes="member: 4937">Which is where I begin to have problems even more so than I have problems with the notion of a 'healing surge'.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think its a bit spurious to pretend that the justification for that lay in a desire for greater realism or out of critique of the hit point model.Healing surges go way way too far the other way, essentially stating that not only is some of the damage of hit points abstract, but that it all is.&nbsp; The Healing surge mechanic gives a character such extraordinary powers of recovery that we must assume that they are never actually injured.&nbsp; But this of course presents us with far greater cognitive problems than the straight hit point system that they replaced.&nbsp;&nbsp; When I suggested healing scale with the level of the target I was thinking something like the following (in 3e terms):Cure Light Wounds: The target recovers hit points as if it had had a night's sleep.Cure Moderate Wounds: The target recovers hit points as if it had two night's sleep.Cure Serious Wounds: The target recovers hit points as if it had three night's sleep.....And, &quot;With 8 hours of sleep, a character can restore hit points equal to 1/2 of its level adjusted HD, rounded up.&quot;A healing surge in such a game system might be, &quot;Once per day, you can gain temporary hit points equal to your base Fortitude save.&nbsp; After 10 rounds, these hit points go away, however, at that time you can make a Will save (DC 15) to heal a like amount of damage.&nbsp; However, this healing can never restore you above 1/2 your maximum hit points.&nbsp; Temporary hit points from multiple healing surges do not stack.&quot;Then you can imagine various class abilities that might interact with that:&quot;Rally Your Forces&quot;:&nbsp; Once per day, make a DC 15 leadership check, to allow all allies within 30' to use a healing surge.&nbsp; This does not count against the target's normal limit of healing surges per day.OrIndomitable Will [General]Prequisite: Base Will save +2Benefit: Your healing save depends on your base Will save bonus.Normal: Your healing save depends on your base Fortitude save bonus.Healing Surges are ridiculous by every standard that Hit Points are ridiculous, multiplied by about 20.&nbsp; I can tolerate a certain amount of gamism and unreality in hit points.&nbsp; Healing Surges as implemented are a mechanic too far.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5602471, member: 4937"] Which is where I begin to have problems even more so than I have problems with the notion of a 'healing surge'. I think its a bit spurious to pretend that the justification for that lay in a desire for greater realism or out of critique of the hit point model. Healing surges go way way too far the other way, essentially stating that not only is some of the damage of hit points abstract, but that it all is. The Healing surge mechanic gives a character such extraordinary powers of recovery that we must assume that they are never actually injured. But this of course presents us with far greater cognitive problems than the straight hit point system that they replaced. When I suggested healing scale with the level of the target I was thinking something like the following (in 3e terms): Cure Light Wounds: The target recovers hit points as if it had had a night's sleep. Cure Moderate Wounds: The target recovers hit points as if it had two night's sleep. Cure Serious Wounds: The target recovers hit points as if it had three night's sleep. .... And, "With 8 hours of sleep, a character can restore hit points equal to 1/2 of its level adjusted HD, rounded up." A healing surge in such a game system might be, "Once per day, you can gain temporary hit points equal to your base Fortitude save. After 10 rounds, these hit points go away, however, at that time you can make a Will save (DC 15) to heal a like amount of damage. However, this healing can never restore you above 1/2 your maximum hit points. Temporary hit points from multiple healing surges do not stack." Then you can imagine various class abilities that might interact with that: "Rally Your Forces": Once per day, make a DC 15 leadership check, to allow all allies within 30' to use a healing surge. This does not count against the target's normal limit of healing surges per day. Or Indomitable Will [General] Prequisite: Base Will save +2 Benefit: Your healing save depends on your base Will save bonus. Normal: Your healing save depends on your base Fortitude save bonus. Healing Surges are ridiculous by every standard that Hit Points are ridiculous, multiplied by about 20. I can tolerate a certain amount of gamism and unreality in hit points. Healing Surges as implemented are a mechanic too far. [/QUOTE]

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