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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5616944" data-attributes="member: 54877">Dragon Quest split the difference. Some of the things you bought were essentially skills based, including weapons and spells. However, the DQ &quot;professions&quot;, like Merchant or Beastmaster were collections of abilities that got better with each &quot;rank&quot;, and you couldn't pick and choose within a profession. If you got a rank in &quot;Ranger&quot;, you got better at all the ranger stuff. The closest equivalent to a &quot;Fighter&quot; class was the &quot;Military Specialist&quot; profession, that was pretty critical for anyone that wanted to be a good warrior/leader. But strictly speaking, if you wanted to be great with a 2 handed sword and not otherwise be a great warrior, you could. Or you could be a cunning leader that wasn't personally that hot with his main weapon.&nbsp;A D&amp;D designer that had the guts to do something that radical might get away with a similar idea, but he or she would need to be careful that &quot;Fighter&quot; and &quot;Wizard&quot; still meant something, after you took all the combat weapons and spells and put them into skills. (It would be easier with the Cleric, and trivial with the Rogue.) &nbsp;I actually think one of the earlier versions would be a better place to start with something like this, though, as much as I prefer the later versions when playing D&amp;D right now. You need a system where &quot;Fighters&quot; can have followers, be parts of orders, have stongholds, etc. with some mechanics to go into this new &quot;Fighter&quot; class that isn't about being good with weapons anymore. Likewise, the &quot;Wizard&quot; class has to have some mechanics for rituals or lore or whatever you want to tie to it. See Dausuul's topic about a BECMI clone using some of the 4E design principles for an idea of how this might look.&nbsp;Of course, you could drop &quot;Fighter&quot; and &quot;Wizard&quot;, rather than come up with something for them to do.&nbsp; But I think if you do that, you probably lost sight of the &quot;I'm still D&amp;D&quot; border, whether you were still in up to that point or not. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5616944, member: 54877"] Dragon Quest split the difference. Some of the things you bought were essentially skills based, including weapons and spells. However, the DQ "professions", like Merchant or Beastmaster were collections of abilities that got better with each "rank", and you couldn't pick and choose within a profession. If you got a rank in "Ranger", you got better at all the ranger stuff. The closest equivalent to a "Fighter" class was the "Military Specialist" profession, that was pretty critical for anyone that wanted to be a good warrior/leader. But strictly speaking, if you wanted to be great with a 2 handed sword and not otherwise be a great warrior, you could. Or you could be a cunning leader that wasn't personally that hot with his main weapon. A D&D designer that had the guts to do something that radical might get away with a similar idea, but he or she would need to be careful that "Fighter" and "Wizard" still meant something, after you took all the combat weapons and spells and put them into skills. (It would be easier with the Cleric, and trivial with the Rogue.) I actually think one of the earlier versions would be a better place to start with something like this, though, as much as I prefer the later versions when playing D&D right now. You need a system where "Fighters" can have followers, be parts of orders, have stongholds, etc. with [B]some[/B] mechanics to go into this new "Fighter" class that isn't about being good with weapons anymore. Likewise, the "Wizard" class has to have some mechanics for rituals or lore or whatever you want to tie to it. See Dausuul's topic about a BECMI clone using some of the 4E design principles for an idea of how this might look. Of course, you could drop "Fighter" and "Wizard", rather than come up with something for them to do. But I think if you do that, you probably lost sight of the "I'm still D&D" border, whether you were still in up to that point or not. :D [/QUOTE]

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