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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 1219751" data-attributes="member: 9410">The changes in 1e magic items, in 3e and on into 3.5, are caused by two things:1) The lack of skills in AD&D,and2) The false assumption that magic items which grant an affect already covered by a skill are skill-boosting items.Now, while this has already been brought up in another thread (<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1219762#post1219762" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1219762#post1219762</a>), which focussed on jumping, I will use the Cloak of Elvenkind as an example, here...Originally, the Cloak of Elvenkind gave, at worst, a 95% chance of being unspotted, as long as you were in natural surroundings, and were moving slowly (walking or slower).  In 3e, this became a +10 Stealth items.  In 3.5, it has been "nerfed" to a +5 Stealth item, and many folks are unhappy with the changes...  The same is true for many "skill-booster items".Now the first thing to remember is, that in 1e, no one but the Thief had any skills, thus, there were (almost) no "Skill Toes" to be stepped on!  No one (except maybe the Thief, if he didn't get the cloak) cared if a Cloak gave you a 95% chance of being "invisible", under certain conditions, as there was NO other way to do it, besides magic!In 3e+, of course, you now have a Hide skill, and characters who put points into it.  Thus, the obvious way to bring the Elven Cloak straight across (+19 Hide) is a poor choice, as an average character (with +2 stat bonus) would need to be 14th level (and have Hide as a Class skill - and that maxed!) to have this degree of skill.  Having your character's best skill "nerfed" because someone else has a magic item is no fun...So the 3e version became +10, "nerfed" to +5 in 3.5e...But I maintain that this was a mistake!  Here's why:The cloak never granted the Hide skill, originally.  There was no Hide skill, but that's beside the point!   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />   Instead, it (basically) made you unspottable except on the roll of a natural 20, but ONLY when in natural surroundings, AND when moving slowly...  When indoors, in a dungeon, in combat (and thus moving quickly), or running, etc., it added NOTHING to any form of stealth!Thus, it was its own affect, and had its own, built-in restrictions on use.  It was not a "skill-booster".  It did not add to the (non-existant) stealth skill, at all!In other words, IMHO, 3.xe has it wrong.  The Cloaks don't boost skill, and their price shouldn't be related to levels of Hide, at all!This is different from a Ring of Jumping, for example, where the effects are directly tied to a skill...  The Jump spell should be limited to a maximum boost of +3+1/Caster Level (as should any skill-boosting spell).  Otherwise, magic-using characters greatly overshadow those without spells.Obviously, a Cloak of Invisibility is better than a Cloak of Elvenkind.  Yet compare the price of a +19 skill-adder to the Cloak of Invisibility...  36,100 GP vs. 12,000?Seems to me that the best thing to have done would have been to NOT make the Cloak of Elvenkind a skill-booster item.  It could work as making the character Camouflaged in natural surroundings (only), requiring a roll of a natural 20 to spot, or a succesful Spot check on a roll of 10+, otherwise, but doesn't function when moving at more than walking speed, nor in combat...  Now the cloak doesn't "nerf" high Stealth skill, is useful to someone with or without it (in the proper circumstances), and does what it was originally supposed to do.For skill-booster items, I don't think they should give more than a +3+1/level boost to any skill, with Cross-Class skills getting 1/2 that, rounded down (+5 skill boosters give Cross-Class skills +2, for instance).  That way, the Rogue's 13 Ranks in Jump still mean something.Same goes for the Jump spell, etc.  They grant the magical equivalent of having the skill maxed out, as a Class skill, with the maximum based on your Caster Level...  Thus, a 15th level Wizard gets +18, while a F5/W5/R5 gets +8, instead.Okay, opinions will vary.  This will "semi-nerf" many items and spells, until you rise to the level where you can can use a bonus as high as the items previously gave.  Some people will like that, others hate it.  It would prevent someone who had spent the time and effort to max Ranks in a skill from being nerfed by an item, however...What are your thoughts?</blockquote>

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