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meeting your 5e character: a 4d6 poll
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<blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 5994398" data-attributes="member: 32740"><p>Really, the question is unanswerable. 5E is TWO YEARS away. If you have a crystal ball that demonstrates just how all of 5E goes together and how any given method of determining stats will mesh with those rules we'd all love to see it.</p><p></p><p>I've played a lot of different ways in the last 35+ years in BTB and house-ruled versions of Basic, 1E AD&D, 2E AD&D, 3E, 3.5... Used different approaches at different times for different reasons. How the heck should I know how ANY of them will work with 5E at this point?</p><p></p><p>I'll put it this way:</p><p>If 5E approaches the game in a manner most closely associated with the oldest versions of the Basic rules where part of the fun, part of the challenge of the game is to make the most of what you get and you can't always get what you want, then letting the chips fall is a method I have no issue with.</p><p></p><p>If the approach is more like, "Here's what WE think should be less frequently seen and more difficult to get classes which we've DESIGNED to be less frequently seen - but do what you want," then most certainly fudging will happen. Really, fudging will happen no matter what because there are no gaming police. Maybe some restrictive generation method will remain nominally in place and nominally enforced, but as DM I will simply whistle tunelessly and look away as players create the characters they WANT to play.</p><p></p><p>The two concepts I most definitely disagree with, and which would be a COLOSSAL waste of everyone's time, energy, and printed ink are the last two. A player should NEVER need or want to just keep rolling and rolling and rolling in order to qualify for or create an adequate rendition of a character. MAD character class construction is game-design FAIL - when the game fails to PROVIDE an attribute generation method which accommodates the needs of such classes in relation to others. And use of wild, crazy, insane methods to create uber-characters <em>will </em>happen (again, there are no gaming police) but there is EVERY reason for the game to be designed to avoid any such tendency.</p><p></p><p>Much of the spiral of outrageous methods can, IMO, be tracked back to 1E. 1E stated directly that a character should have two 15's to be "viable" as a PC, largely because it presented ability score charts which placed bonuses of any kind at that level. But then it presented only generation methods which utterly failed to reliably produce those two 15's... or required endless rerolls in order to get them... or required overpowered methods which would distort all the scores to that point... and those charts rendered the vast majority of middle-range scores quite meaningless.</p><p></p><p>I think they're a <em>little </em>smarter nowadays, but I suspect that like EVERY version of the game thus far the question of ability score generation will come AFTER everything else is done and not be an INTEGRAL part of it all as it ought to be.</p><p></p><p>The method itself means nothing without knowing how it works within the framework of the final rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Man in the Funny Hat, post: 5994398, member: 32740"] Really, the question is unanswerable. 5E is TWO YEARS away. If you have a crystal ball that demonstrates just how all of 5E goes together and how any given method of determining stats will mesh with those rules we'd all love to see it. I've played a lot of different ways in the last 35+ years in BTB and house-ruled versions of Basic, 1E AD&D, 2E AD&D, 3E, 3.5... Used different approaches at different times for different reasons. How the heck should I know how ANY of them will work with 5E at this point? I'll put it this way: If 5E approaches the game in a manner most closely associated with the oldest versions of the Basic rules where part of the fun, part of the challenge of the game is to make the most of what you get and you can't always get what you want, then letting the chips fall is a method I have no issue with. If the approach is more like, "Here's what WE think should be less frequently seen and more difficult to get classes which we've DESIGNED to be less frequently seen - but do what you want," then most certainly fudging will happen. Really, fudging will happen no matter what because there are no gaming police. Maybe some restrictive generation method will remain nominally in place and nominally enforced, but as DM I will simply whistle tunelessly and look away as players create the characters they WANT to play. The two concepts I most definitely disagree with, and which would be a COLOSSAL waste of everyone's time, energy, and printed ink are the last two. A player should NEVER need or want to just keep rolling and rolling and rolling in order to qualify for or create an adequate rendition of a character. MAD character class construction is game-design FAIL - when the game fails to PROVIDE an attribute generation method which accommodates the needs of such classes in relation to others. And use of wild, crazy, insane methods to create uber-characters [I]will [/I]happen (again, there are no gaming police) but there is EVERY reason for the game to be designed to avoid any such tendency. Much of the spiral of outrageous methods can, IMO, be tracked back to 1E. 1E stated directly that a character should have two 15's to be "viable" as a PC, largely because it presented ability score charts which placed bonuses of any kind at that level. But then it presented only generation methods which utterly failed to reliably produce those two 15's... or required endless rerolls in order to get them... or required overpowered methods which would distort all the scores to that point... and those charts rendered the vast majority of middle-range scores quite meaningless. I think they're a [I]little [/I]smarter nowadays, but I suspect that like EVERY version of the game thus far the question of ability score generation will come AFTER everything else is done and not be an INTEGRAL part of it all as it ought to be. The method itself means nothing without knowing how it works within the framework of the final rules. [/QUOTE]
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