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Message: <blockquote data-quote="crash_beedo" data-source="post: 4527404" data-attributes="member: 18781">4E Sandbox, Megadungeon StyleI want to try a sandbox approach in an upcoming campaign.  I like the idea of putting a megadungeon out there, provide a half-dozen hooks or opportunities for adventure, and then let the game unfold.  I have a compelling idea for a 4E/FR-based megadungeon that I'm developing; it will take place in Narfell on the frozen shores of Icelace Lake, the ruins of an ancient monastery used by an order of wizards, right on the lake shore.  What I want to get from the community are ideas on the theories lined out below.What is a Megadungeon?Megadungeons go back to the root of the hobby (1E AD&D and the OD&D little books).  The idea is that an entire campaign can be built around a dungeon, and plots emerge through play that keep the party moving forward so it doesn't devolve into hacking and looting.  But the key is, the party controls the pace and determines the risk-vs-reward ratio.  Not many have been printed, Temple of Elemental Evil , Caverns of Thracia, Tegel Manor.  I loved Castle Whiterock in 3.5, too.  I had great hopes all of Castle Zagyg would see print.  There are lots of places to go learn about them on some of the grognard hangouts; run a search over on Dragonsfoot, Knights and Knaves Alehouse, etc and you'll find some great posts on Megadungeon Theory by fellas like TFoster, Evereaux, map analysis by Melan, etc (those posters stand out to me, but there have been many great contributors).My goal here is not to rehash megadungeon design but discuss how to modify the theories to work with 4E adventure building models.Sandbox Theory and DungeonsI guess I consider Sandbox theory the opposite of railroading.  The DM puts 'just enough' of the setting out there, with some adventure hooks, and the players make of it what they will.  The DM builds on the players choices and the campaign emerges in a more collaberative manner than if the DM started with a Cool Epic Plot™®.  JG's Wilderlands is my archetypical sandbox - its just a ton of mapped hexes with a guide and the players are free to wander; if they go north instead of south, there's no story they're ruining, the story will emerge.Mike Mearls' blog post on Keep on the Borderlands got me thinking why B2 is still so charming; a unique story emerges each time you play it, through a mixture of rumors, hooks, and the player's choices.  There's no linear plot to it.  I DM plenty of Adventure Paths, and once in a while you just want to punt the baggage, the McGuffins, the Mary Sues, the railroads.Sandbox and Risk-RewardPlayers control the level of risk-reward through their choices; if the DM presents them a staircase that goes from level 1 to 2,3 and 4, and they decide to jump to level 4, a TPK is likely.  Similar to Keep on the Borderlands B2, where an unwise group could blunder into the Minotaur maze, the Shunned Cave, or visit the Bugbear before they're ready.The Five Room DungeonA modern theory I like is the five-room dungeon - it's a compartmentalized approach to design (like the 'Delve') - here's a typical 5-Room Dungeon style:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Room One: Entrance And Guardian</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Room Two: Puzzle Or Roleplaying Challenge</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Room Three: Trick or Setback</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Room Four: Climax, Big Battle or Conflict</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Room Five: Reward, Revelation, Plot Twist</li> </ul>Okay, so what's a 5-Room Dungeon doing in my Megadungeon?!  Keep on the Borderlands is a good example of how a dozen independent lairs, loosely connected in a sandbox, can be assembled to form something larger.  I'm keeping the 5-Room dungeon option open as a design model, assembling the megadungeon from a series of lairs or delves.  It means you don't sit down and design 20 rooms... you sit down and design a handful of loosely connected delves or lairs.You may note that assembling a larger dungeon from a series of delves or lairs appears to be the model for the 4E published adventures - it's present in H1 where you see the dungeon level 1 broken into areas like 'Goblin Encampment', 'The Tombs', and 'The Caves'; level 2 has 'Hobgoblin Borough' and 'Dungeon Chambers'.  H2 and H3 are similar.Wandering Monsters and Rival NPC'sI think Wandering Monsters add an interesting dynamic to an otherwise static setting.  My favorite kinds are when more powerful monsters (maybe from the next level down) are up looking for a snack.  (Obviously these aren't all meant to be fights - players need to know when they're overmatched!).  The other kind I miss are the wandering NPC parties.  Setting up adventurers or other intelligent delvers as rivals can lead to those emergent storylines that develop from the sandbox.  Who doesn't remember Gutboy Barrelhouse and Balto throwing down with Arkayn and Abner from the 1E DMG combat example?Experience Points and Treasure ParcelsThis is a tough one for megadungeon design, and I welcome ideas.  Here is the issue:  you don't want to over-create your levels, and you also need to assume the players won't uncover everything.  How big do you make any given dungeon level so it feels 'large' but you don't create an extra thousand rooms, say?  How do you employ the 4E guidelines for parcels and items to ensure the group gets the right wealth per level?On the one hand, 4E might make the treasure parcel piece super easy; maybe you just key it "in pencil" just like you were building B1 (In Search of the Unknown) - first 10 treasure-bearing encounters lead to the first 10 parcels.Moving the Game ForwardMy theory is that through a combination of emergent stories, seeded plot hooks and mysteries, and similar concepts, there will be incentive for the players to delve deeper into the megadungeon as they progress up in level.  Keeping the players going vertical and not too horizontoal is an area of concern (highlighted below in problems).Bringing it All TogetherI've developed an overarching plot and framework for the megadungeon (I like the top-down approach, 'Rational Dungeon Design / Let there be a method to your madness' is a great Dragon Article on megadungeon design from way back in the day - Dragon #10 in fact).  Once I have a theme for each level, I plan on outlining something like 3-4 delves or lairs to plug in, with room for expandability.For instance, here is a practical example from the megadungeon I'm currently working on.I have two potential delves in the upper works (one in the lakeside south part of the ruined monastery, one in the north).  The lakeside delive includes a vermin encounter and a human bandit encampment; the encounters on the other side of the ruins include goblins from the Blood Mountain Tribe and their bugbear allies.  There are at least 3 ways into the first level of the dungeon from the upper works.  (There are also a series of caves in the nearby ravine, and one of the caves leads to level 1 as well...)Delves planned out for the 1st level include the dragon worshippers (a kobold tribe very similar to the Kobold Hall delve in the DMG with a solo white dragon), a vermin delve (dire rats, fire beetles, stirges, etc), mutant goblins inspired by the roll vs role article on goblins, and finally a delve built around elves, halflings and their guard drake companions (exploring the ruins, these agents from The Good Lands™ have set up a temporary redoubt).Wandering encounters for level 1 include orc raiders up from level 4, hobgoblins, vermin, and an NPC party.  The orcs, the toughest wandering monster, aim to capture/subdue opponents (so there will be no TPK).  They sell captured humanoids to the level 6 Shadar-Kai, who remove their captives to the Shadowfell to fight in a Shadar-Kai arena.There are a handful of plot hooks to get the characters into the dungeon; the biggest one (that launches the game) goes like this:  The ruins have existed for centuries as a haven for monsters and bandits, and they've drawn low-level adventurers from time to time to challenge their skills there.  But the deeper levels have always held a mystery - the Iron Portals that seal the upper levels from those below.  Last year, the famous explorer (haha, I'll call him Arne Saknussem for now...) deciphered  the secret of the portals and discovered a large dungeon complex beneath the known levels, leading to the very Underdark itself and the secret laboratories and halls of knowledge for the ancient order.  Saknussem returned to the surface with magical trinkets, ancient coins, and items of power; word spread to the lands of Damara, Impiltur, the Dalelands, and even darkened lands like Netheril and Vaasa, and now adventurers of many stripes have traveled to the remote outposts of Narfell to plan their own expeditions into the ruins.For a more focused plot hook, consider the information from the Orc wandering encounter; there are Shadar-Kai slavers in the ruins that capture humanoids and sell them to fight in the arena.  Local barbarian tribes from the tundra use the ruins as proving grounds for young warriors coming of age; warriors sneak into the upper works, descend ropes down a shaft into the great hall on the first dungeon level, and are expected to spend a night in the ruins, returning the next day with some token proving they spent the night.  More and more of these groups of young warriors are failing to return; they're targeted specifically by the slavers and taken to the Shadowfell where the barbarians make prized gladiators.  Characters investigating this hook would follow a series of trails and ultimately get a chance to enter the Shadowfell, fight in the arena, lead a slave revolt, or otherwise win freedom for the prisoners.  (Of course there has to be an arena in the megadungeon after Dragon had those macho Gladiator articles!)</blockquote>

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