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Melee Smackdown - Who kicks more butt, PsyWar or Ftr? Prove it!
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1710603" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>Shadeus, that's an interesting fighter but you really need to do all the work and give him full equipment, full skills, and a full list of feats in order to take part in this competition which measures a variety of situational factors under things like "flexibility." It makes a very big difference if this fighter has a cape of the Montebank to escape from a collossal dragon's claws or whether grappled=defeated. Similarly, it makes a big difference whether the fighter can fly with some kind of boots, cloak, or potion or whether he is earthbound. All of those factors play a role here.</p><p></p><p>PS. I note that your fighter has only six relevant feats. A 15th level barbarian has that many feats. If you are posting here to demonstrate that Ftr 20 is a decent build, you will need to make full use of the 18-19 feats that a Ftr 20 gets. A build that a 20th level barbarian could duplicate (while spending a feat on Heavy Armor proficiency) won't do.</p><p></p><p>My own thought would be a human Ftr 20 making use of a heavy flail, Halberd, or Guisarme (in which case, swap a feat (probably Cleave or Quickdraw) for Stand Still) and animated tower shield</p><p></p><p>feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Elusive Target, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Iron Will, Combat Reflexes, Close Quarters Fighting, Improved Toughness, Improved Combat Expertise, Quickdraw (assuming Jorgundsbrod isn't allowed in this forum).</p><p></p><p>OK, I'm curious how he'll turn out so I've statted him up:</p><p></p><p>stats: Str 30 (15 +5 lvl, +4 tome, +6 belt), Dex 16 (10+6 gloves), Con 16 (14+2 ioun stone), Int 13, Wis 14 (12+2 ioun stone), Cha 8 </p><p></p><p>feats (human bonus+7 for levels, +11 fighter bonus feats): Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Elusive Target, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Iron Will, Combat Reflexes, Close Quarters Fighting, Improved Toughness, Improved Combat Expertise, Quickdraw</p><p></p><p>HD: 20d10+80; HP: 195</p><p>AC: 44 base (+3 dex, +13 armor, +7 shield, +5 deflection, +5 natural, +1 insight), 45 when hasted, 46 with dodge; up to 66 using superior combat expertise, up to 72 using his ring of spell storing for Alter Self</p><p>Miss chance: 20% (concealment)</p><p>Atk: +38/+33/+28/+23 (+39/+39... hasted) [+20 BAB, +10 str, +2 greater weapon focus, +2 morale, +4 enhancement] for 1d10+23 19-20/x3 halberd [+15 strength, +4 weapon, +4 greater weapon specialization], or (+41/+41... for 1d10+25+2d6 halberd vs. evil outsiders) or +26/+21/+16/+11 ranged (1d6+11 javalin of returning or javalin of lighning) [+20 BAB, +3 dex, +2 morale, +1 enhancement]; </p><p>Saves: +24/+18/+19 (+2 morale, +1 insight, +5 resistance, +1 luck)</p><p></p><p>Skills: Autohypnosis +9 (5 r cc), Climb +16 (10 r), Diplomacy +2 (1 r cc), Handle Animal +6 (5r), Intimidate +24 (23 r), Jump +16 (10r), Knowledge: Psionics: +6 (1 r cc) Ride +12 (5r), Spellcraft +4 (1 r cc), Swim +25 or +23 with shield (23r) [Universal bonus: +2 morale]</p><p></p><p>Gear: (760,000gp or so)</p><p>+4 Manual of Gainful Exercise 110kgp</p><p>+5 anti-impact (CW, +2000), Heartening (XPsiHB +720), Aporter (XPsiHB +40,320), Gleaming (XPsiHB +3 bonus), mithral fullplate 118.04kgp</p><p>+6 belt of giant strength 36kgp</p><p>+6 gloves of dexterity 36kgp</p><p>+5 cloak of resistance 25kgp</p><p>+2 ioun stone: wisdom 8kgp</p><p>+2 ioun stone: con 8kgp</p><p>+5 ring of protection 50kgp</p><p>+5 amulet of natural armor 50kgp</p><p>+5 animated heavy shield of moderate fortification 105,020gp </p><p>Luck Blade (no wishes--22,060gp)</p><p>4 javalins of lightning 6kgp</p><p>+4 Evil Outsider Bane, Parrying (XPsiHB, +1 bonus), adamantine halberd 75kgp</p><p>Boots of Speed 12kgp</p><p>Ring of Spell Storing 50,000gp (Alter Self and either See Invisibility and Enlarge Person or fly, or a quickened Divine Favor or Righteous Might)</p><p>Standard of Heroism (Complete Warrior 40kgp)</p><p>Sacred Scabbard (4,400gp)</p><p>Horn of Fog (2kgp)</p><p>Heward's Handy Haversack 2kgp</p><p>Plus a few thousand gp in extra javalins, consumables, etc.</p><p></p><p>If he's allowed to count on his allies as fighters are wont to do, with just a greater magic weapon and a magic vestment from the cleric, he can drop the enhancement bonus on his armor and weapon in exchange for either a +1 Holy Wounding Parrying Evil Outsider Bane adamantine halberd and a little extra cash to blow on mind-armor armor, an ioun stone of spell storing, a second ring of spell storing, or a gem of seeing or some combination of the above.</p><p></p><p>This character has a lot of tactical flexibility. Against foes with reach, he can spring attack, against multiple foes, he can cleave, or use Elusive Target in combination with combat expertise, mobility, and Spring Attack (which lets him choose one target from whom he doesn't want an AoO) to cause overreach and trip foes then take a free attack on them and possibly cleave. If he sets himself up properly, he can also cause one foe to miss and strike another enemy and, using spring attack, he doesn't have to stay in a flanked or easily flankable position to do so. He can trip quite well (+14 on the check--+19 if he is enlarged, +22 if Righteous Mighted) and can resist most grapple attempts with Close Quarters Fighting. The grapples that he doesn't resist, he can escape with his aportive armor. He can also pump his AC very high in order to absorb damage from the party's enemies and any time he finds himself in the middle of a full attack action with no more foes within reach, he can quickdraw various javalins and throw them at his enemies. He can even throw four or five javalins of lightning in one round which, while expensive, would certainly make a difference in a battle against multiple foes without evasion. In combat, he can jump over most minor obstacles and he can fairly reliably swim across open sea in full armor carrying a tower shield. That's not too impressive compared to teleport but makes for good bragging if he ever sits down at a table with Beowulf.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 1710603, member: 3146"] Shadeus, that's an interesting fighter but you really need to do all the work and give him full equipment, full skills, and a full list of feats in order to take part in this competition which measures a variety of situational factors under things like "flexibility." It makes a very big difference if this fighter has a cape of the Montebank to escape from a collossal dragon's claws or whether grappled=defeated. Similarly, it makes a big difference whether the fighter can fly with some kind of boots, cloak, or potion or whether he is earthbound. All of those factors play a role here. PS. I note that your fighter has only six relevant feats. A 15th level barbarian has that many feats. If you are posting here to demonstrate that Ftr 20 is a decent build, you will need to make full use of the 18-19 feats that a Ftr 20 gets. A build that a 20th level barbarian could duplicate (while spending a feat on Heavy Armor proficiency) won't do. My own thought would be a human Ftr 20 making use of a heavy flail, Halberd, or Guisarme (in which case, swap a feat (probably Cleave or Quickdraw) for Stand Still) and animated tower shield feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Elusive Target, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Iron Will, Combat Reflexes, Close Quarters Fighting, Improved Toughness, Improved Combat Expertise, Quickdraw (assuming Jorgundsbrod isn't allowed in this forum). OK, I'm curious how he'll turn out so I've statted him up: stats: Str 30 (15 +5 lvl, +4 tome, +6 belt), Dex 16 (10+6 gloves), Con 16 (14+2 ioun stone), Int 13, Wis 14 (12+2 ioun stone), Cha 8 feats (human bonus+7 for levels, +11 fighter bonus feats): Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Elusive Target, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Iron Will, Combat Reflexes, Close Quarters Fighting, Improved Toughness, Improved Combat Expertise, Quickdraw HD: 20d10+80; HP: 195 AC: 44 base (+3 dex, +13 armor, +7 shield, +5 deflection, +5 natural, +1 insight), 45 when hasted, 46 with dodge; up to 66 using superior combat expertise, up to 72 using his ring of spell storing for Alter Self Miss chance: 20% (concealment) Atk: +38/+33/+28/+23 (+39/+39... hasted) [+20 BAB, +10 str, +2 greater weapon focus, +2 morale, +4 enhancement] for 1d10+23 19-20/x3 halberd [+15 strength, +4 weapon, +4 greater weapon specialization], or (+41/+41... for 1d10+25+2d6 halberd vs. evil outsiders) or +26/+21/+16/+11 ranged (1d6+11 javalin of returning or javalin of lighning) [+20 BAB, +3 dex, +2 morale, +1 enhancement]; Saves: +24/+18/+19 (+2 morale, +1 insight, +5 resistance, +1 luck) Skills: Autohypnosis +9 (5 r cc), Climb +16 (10 r), Diplomacy +2 (1 r cc), Handle Animal +6 (5r), Intimidate +24 (23 r), Jump +16 (10r), Knowledge: Psionics: +6 (1 r cc) Ride +12 (5r), Spellcraft +4 (1 r cc), Swim +25 or +23 with shield (23r) [Universal bonus: +2 morale] Gear: (760,000gp or so) +4 Manual of Gainful Exercise 110kgp +5 anti-impact (CW, +2000), Heartening (XPsiHB +720), Aporter (XPsiHB +40,320), Gleaming (XPsiHB +3 bonus), mithral fullplate 118.04kgp +6 belt of giant strength 36kgp +6 gloves of dexterity 36kgp +5 cloak of resistance 25kgp +2 ioun stone: wisdom 8kgp +2 ioun stone: con 8kgp +5 ring of protection 50kgp +5 amulet of natural armor 50kgp +5 animated heavy shield of moderate fortification 105,020gp Luck Blade (no wishes--22,060gp) 4 javalins of lightning 6kgp +4 Evil Outsider Bane, Parrying (XPsiHB, +1 bonus), adamantine halberd 75kgp Boots of Speed 12kgp Ring of Spell Storing 50,000gp (Alter Self and either See Invisibility and Enlarge Person or fly, or a quickened Divine Favor or Righteous Might) Standard of Heroism (Complete Warrior 40kgp) Sacred Scabbard (4,400gp) Horn of Fog (2kgp) Heward's Handy Haversack 2kgp Plus a few thousand gp in extra javalins, consumables, etc. If he's allowed to count on his allies as fighters are wont to do, with just a greater magic weapon and a magic vestment from the cleric, he can drop the enhancement bonus on his armor and weapon in exchange for either a +1 Holy Wounding Parrying Evil Outsider Bane adamantine halberd and a little extra cash to blow on mind-armor armor, an ioun stone of spell storing, a second ring of spell storing, or a gem of seeing or some combination of the above. This character has a lot of tactical flexibility. Against foes with reach, he can spring attack, against multiple foes, he can cleave, or use Elusive Target in combination with combat expertise, mobility, and Spring Attack (which lets him choose one target from whom he doesn't want an AoO) to cause overreach and trip foes then take a free attack on them and possibly cleave. If he sets himself up properly, he can also cause one foe to miss and strike another enemy and, using spring attack, he doesn't have to stay in a flanked or easily flankable position to do so. He can trip quite well (+14 on the check--+19 if he is enlarged, +22 if Righteous Mighted) and can resist most grapple attempts with Close Quarters Fighting. The grapples that he doesn't resist, he can escape with his aportive armor. He can also pump his AC very high in order to absorb damage from the party's enemies and any time he finds himself in the middle of a full attack action with no more foes within reach, he can quickdraw various javalins and throw them at his enemies. He can even throw four or five javalins of lightning in one round which, while expensive, would certainly make a difference in a battle against multiple foes without evasion. In combat, he can jump over most minor obstacles and he can fairly reliably swim across open sea in full armor carrying a tower shield. That's not too impressive compared to teleport but makes for good bragging if he ever sits down at a table with Beowulf. [/QUOTE]
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