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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1713381" data-attributes="member: 3146">OK, moving back to the original rules of the thread, in the first post, I've made a few changes (revised hp totals etc) on my fighter:So, let's see how he stacks up with the criteria listed:As a fighter rather than a caster, he has to rely upon party members to deal with a lot of adverse environmental conditions. However, that doesn't mean he's completely helpless.With a +24 fort save, he can walk four hours through the desert wearing his fullplate before failing his saves on anything other than a 1. With a swim of +23-+25, he can handle falling overboard in the Nyr Dyv pretty or falling into a water filled pit trap pretty well. If he finds himself in somewhere with bad air, he can hold his breath for three minutes. For really extreme conditions like underwater, in space, or in the elemental plane of fire, however, he will need to either rely upon equipment or upon the casters in his party. Then again, so will the rogue. Given the right spells in his ring of spell storing, he can breath water (alter self or water breathing, etc) or do pretty much anything else that might be called for. Since he will usually have Alter Self in that ring, we'll count that. Sure, it's an example of a fighter using items to cover his weaknesses but that's the point: he can (and did) cover those weaknesses.When hit with a meteor swarm, he'll usually take the 84 hit points of damage and keep going. There's an appreciable chance the enemy wizard would miss his touch AC which varies from 19 to 41 depending upon his use of combat expertise (and is usually around 24-25) though.  (Most wizards will probably have a +16 or so ranged touch attack at 20th level). If he's just caught within the area of effect of the meteor swarm, he'll make his save about half the time and take half damage.If the battlefield is split by a wall spell, he can use his equipment to get around it. (If it's a low wall, he can probably jump or climb over it without too much trouble since he does both very well even in fullplate with an animated shield). This particular fighter can use his ring of spell storing to cast a spell that lets him move through it or use his aportive armor to dimension door to the other side. Unless it's a wall of force, he can also power attack his way through it. (He can bash through pretty much any non-wall of force in a single round with his adamantine halberd and an attack that will AC 5 (like most walls) on a 1 with his 4th attack even when power attacking (19 points when not hasted, 20 points when hasted) and deals 1d10+41-43 points of damage ignoring hardness. Unless the wall has more than 243 hit points in any one place, he can cut through it in a single round (the same time it would take him or the psi-warrior to dimension door across it).Against a charm monster, he's got a pretty good will save at +19. If one assumes that your standard 20th level wizard has an int of 26 and greater spell focus in whatever he's casting, he makes the save on a roll of 5. Against True Domination or some such 9th level spell, he'll still make the save on a roll of 10 which is decent odds. If he fails, he's got the luck blade that he can use to re-roll the save. Or he can get the party wizard to cast Mind Blank on him, to dispel the effect or the paladin or cleric to cast resurgence (if Complete Divine is available) for another shot at the save. His will save is a weakness but not an insurmountable one.We might want to rethink the >=50% hits, <50% misses rubric in favor of average damage per round--especially because power attack makes that eminently abusable and is a key part of any high level fighter type's actual damage potential.With the rules listed here:With boots of speed active: 95%/95%/95%/75%/50% for 5 hits for 142.5 points discounting criticals. But since one of his class abilities (feats) is Improved Crit, that's not really fair. So, averaging his chances to hit at 82% and giving him a 10% chance to threaten on each hit, he has about a 41% chance of threatening each round. We'll give that an 82% chance to confirm which yields a 33.6% chance of a successful crit each round. A crit deals an additional 57 points of damage and adds 19.1 to his damage/round. So he's really at 161.6 per round.It takes him two rounds to kill his opponent.Unless, of course, his opponent is an evil outsider. (Bane probably wasn't a good choice for this comparison but I thought it would be a good decision for the character since evil outsiders are the kind of creature he's most likely to run into where he'll have to get past DR. Since having a holy cold iron or holy silver weapon would only get him past the DR of top-shelf outsiders half the time and, converting the +2 to hit into power attack, bane effectively gets him past 13 points of DR on average (by increasing his damage by an average of 13) and gets him by evil outsiders with DR/epic, I figured that evil outsider bane was a good choice for a character's weapon). The he'll kill the opponent in 1.5 rounds--or, more likely, will still kill the opponent in 2 rounds even though it has DR or will use expertise more and still kill his foe in 2 rounds.Since my last attack would have missed had I been using combat expertise (and in that case, it would take 3 rounds to kill him), I'll just make the BBEG my dodge target and keep using my boots of speed. So, the character is AC 46 with a 20% miss chance due to gleaming armor.+50%/+25%/+5%/+5%At an average of 31 points of damage/hit, the foe will take 7 rounds to kill my candidate based on the >=50% assumption and assuming that he can see through concealment.If the foe can't see through concealment, that's+40%/+20%/+4%/+4%In that case, my candidate is invulnerable.If my candidate uses Combat Expertise, he can easily adjust the total number of rounds he survives any way he feels like. The smart move is probably using combat expertise for 9 points and taking 3-4 rounds to kill the bad guy but being hit only on 20's. Well, actually, if the bad guy is vulnerable to improved trip, my candidate can probably trip him in which case he kills the bad guy in 2-3 rounds and is hit only on 20's. If we want average damage/round to my fighter, that's 26.35 points of damage per round excluding criticals. If we assume the foe uses natural weapons and has improved crit (for 19-20/x2) that's a 26.9% chance of threatening a crit (it would be 33% but 19s don't hit on his 3rd and 4th attacks) and a 21.25% chance of confirming the crit. My foe's crits add 1.77 points of damage per round against the fighter--assuming he can see through concealment. But wait, I've moderate fortification. Make that  0.89 points of damage/round from crits.With a normal move of 20, he's not going anywhere particularly quickly. However, when he activates his boots of speed he's pretty quick. He can also dimension door a couple times per day using items. If he has the right spells in his ring of spell storing, he may be able to fly as well. He'll only have that ability in his ring about 25% of the time though.By the rules, listed above, he wins in two rounds and takes no damage.By average damage/round, he wins in three rounds and takes very little damage.Dang, I can do this all day.I can still do this all day. (I should have used Combat Expertise in the last fight; my foe managed to hurt me). I'm being careful--win in three rounds; no appreciable damage.This is the bad bit for the character. Depending upon how much he can count on his allies there are a lot of possibilities (all of these assume my shield is close at hand too):1. No armor on, yeah right. Hey, Mr. Cleric, can you spare a lesser restoration in the morning? Great. OK, I sleep in my fullplate. I win--3 rounds. No appreciable damage.2. I could sleep in my armor but why would I? Mr. Wizard, can you spare a mage armor; it'll help against incorporeal foes tomorrow too if we run into them. (This can also be accomplished by wearing a 100gp chain shirt nightie). Base AC 35. Dodge+boots of speed makes that AC 37.90%/65%/40%/15%. 62 points of damage per round from the standard foe. I die in 4 rounds.I attack at 95%/95%/95%/75%/50% for 143 points of damage/round excluding crits. It would take me 3 rounds to kill my foe (2 w/crits as we explored before). And, of course, in round 1 I need to pick up my halberd, pick up my shield, and stand up. So I win or lose based on initiative and crits.Of course, that's my candidate being dumb. If he trips his foe, and power attacks for 4, his foe's attacks go down to: 60%/40%/15%/5% and now his foe needs 7 rounds to kill him. His attacks stay at 95%/ 95%/95%/75%/50% for 183 points of damage per round (excluding crits) so he wins in 2 rounds excluding crits--but he needs to stand up and get his stuff in the first round so lets make it three rounds.Alternatively, my candidate may use spring attack to limit the attacks to 1 per round either way and combat expertise for 18 points. My foe only hits on a 20. I hit on a 14. It takes a long time and it's pretty ugly but I win. If I trip him too, then he doesn't even get to attack me. (Using the 50% rule, I Combat Expertise for 10 points and hit every time; he misses every time. I win).If we go by average damage/round instead of the >50%=miss, my candidate probably combat expertise for more and take longer to kill his foe but take less damage in return.3. Dangit, Mr. Wizard, prep me a mage armor tomorrow. Base AC 31. Dodge plus boots makes it 33.Those four points of AC will sometimes make the difference between life and death for my candidate.The baseline assumption is my foe hits: 95%/85%/60%/35%. 93 points of damage per round from the standard foe. I die in 3 rounds.I attack at 95%/95%/95%/75%/50% for 143 points of damage/round excluding crits. It would take me 3 rounds to kill my foe. And, of course, in round 1 I need to pick up my halberd, pick up my shield, and stand up. Since I deal enough damage per round to kill my opponent in 2 rounds with crits, I might win--if I get lucky.Of course, that's my candidate being dumb. If he trips his foe and uses combat expertise for 4 points, his foe's attacks go down to: 70%/45%/20%/5% and now his foe needs 7 rounds to kill him. His attacks stay the same since the prone penalty to his foe's AC cancels out the combat expertise. He kills his foe in 3 rounds--2 if you include crits but he needs to stand up and get his stuff in the first round so lets make it three rounds.If his foe isn't trippable, he's in a much worse situation. He can Combat Expertise for 15 points dropping his foe's attacks to +45%/+20%/+5%/+5%--invulnerability in the 50% hit contest. However, his attacks go down to +55%/+55%/+30%/+5%/+5%. He deals 57 points of damage per round and wins in six rounds. But that's just a function of the 50% hit system. Going by average damage/round, he takes: 23.25 damage/round and deals 42.75 points/round (excluding crits). It would take his foe 9 rounds to kill him but he will probably kill his foe in 7.02 rounds. Crits should more than make up for the .02 rounds.</blockquote>

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