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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1715868" data-attributes="member: 3146">Quite frankly, Scion, you'll have to try to be a little more open-minded. You clearly have no interest in actually comparing characters capabilities. All you want to do is chant your "anything you can do I can do better" mantra over and over again. Saying it doesn't make it so. And it doesn't help when you assume a best case scenario for the PsyWar at all times (as I count it you assume the PsyWar overchannels his Hostile Empathic Transfer against the Balor in order to minimize the significance of its SR), miscalculate gold expenditure (the equipment posted for my fighter is about 4.5kgp under the limit--it's only over the limit if you start counting pearls of power for every bit of help you get from party members), and continually change the capabilities of your character (this weapon, that weapon, the other weapon, skin of the defender, boots of speed, whatever), ignore the posted characters (for the record, even if we go with the amulet of natural armor/ring of protection version of your psywar, his AC is 40--notably less than the fighter's unless he uses Form of Doom--and shift the goalposts of the discussion. When it comes down to dragon, we started out assuming that the goal was simply to survive for a couple rounds but when it becomes apparent that the fighter can dodge and survive longer, all of a sudden it's a question of who has the least infinitessimal chance of going out in a blaze of glory by one-round killing the dragon. Even then, I notice that you discount everything that the fighter could do on the basis of "the dragon would be buffed/etc so that wouldn't work" but insist that, somehow, even though you haven't worked out the odds, the PsyWar does an average of 299 points of damage/round to the dragon without saying what buffs and items you're crediting the dragon with. So, not only has the half of the goal that was more difficult for the PsyWar to reach disappeared but the dragon appears to have mysteriously shown up naked to fight the psywar.Exchanges like this: have done little to convince me of your good faith. If you add the numbers together, the fighter's grapple check to resist the dragon is d20+60--slightly better than the dragon's d20+58. Neither that, nor improved grab monsters nor charcters with improved grapple are "incredibly narrow sets of circumstances." If you can't admit it when the fighter does something well, there's no point in continuing the discussion. The fighter does resist grapples well. He resists them in a different manner than the PsyWar--a manner that has both strengths and weaknesses. The strengths are that it is non-magical, deals noticable damage to his enemies and is available throughout his career. The weaknesses are that it doesn't work reliably against the really really good grapplers and that it requires him to hit (which is usually a formality but might go down to as low as 50% vs. the dragon). At 20th level, the PsyWar resists better than the fighter (which I've admitted since the first post on the subject) but this fighter still gets quite high marks for resisting because in most situations, he's practically invulnerable to grapples.Your consistent failure to address the need for buffing rounds to put up form of doom is also unhelpful. If the PsyWar uses expansion, form of doom, and Psionic Lion's charge as you seem to think is the ultimate backup plan (and, being honest, it is a pretty good one) that needs to be compared to the amount of damage the fighter does in two rounds rather than one--because that's the amout of time it takes the PsyWar to actually do it.Similarly, statements like this: which you consistently make assume that the PsyWar is consistently using Form of Doom and Psionic Lion's charge. However, you don't seem to take that drain on your pp into account. Since you only outdamage the fighter on full attacks when form of doomed and using psionic lion's charge and you only have the pps to do that once per fight in a few fights per day (unless you settle for using psionic lion's charge unaugmented and forgoe form of doom), this is not a valid comparison. (Not to mention that, for all you talk about blowing the fighter's damage out of the water, actual numbers have never been forthcoming).The thread and discussion have gone on long enough to convince me that the PsyWar can be an interesting build and that empathic feedback is rather broken. (Equivalent of a 9th level spell--right. It's augmentable to cost the same power points; that's not exactly the same thing.) Other than that, it has also convinced me that you're completely unwilling to consider that the PsyWar might be second best in any regard. (Prediction: this will come back quoted with the reply "because he's not.") It has also convinced me that a 20th level fighter is or at least can be (because there are plenty of ways to screw up a fighter just like there are plenty of ways to screw up a psywar) one tough hombre and that he can stand up to 20th level challenges pretty darn well.PS. WRT:  The SRD lists the DC for manifesting a power while grappling or pinned as 20 rather than 20+level. Is it different in the actual X-PsiHB? I would hope it is.</blockquote>

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