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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1723648" data-attributes="member: 3146">Not too much point except that neither fighters nor PsyWars get any special ability to aquire mounts and most mounts not gained through class abilities are incredibly fragile at level 20. A paladin's warhorse will probably be fine fighting the dragon but even a griffon mounted fighter or PsyWar will be coming to terms with falling damage. The centaur form is a way of getting the double damage mounted charge without relying upon a mount that's going to die as soon as anything on the battlefield blinks. Heck, that makes it worth it right there, even without triple damage for spirited charge (which some DMs extrapolate to allowing based on the rider bit).Ahh yes. Interesting how things (like the original purpose) get lost in the comparison. Other than mounted combat paladins (who are only better than mounted fighters because they can find level appropriate mounts and when they smite evil), I'm of the opinion that fighters are pretty much the equal of any of the other fighting classes in combat and can even dish it out with a cleric who spends all his feats and spells to be good at combat. (And they can do it without spending that first round buffing and the first two rounds casting quickened spells). The comparison seems to end up with the PsyWar looking like a lot of battle cleric builds I've seen in various places. I don't see that it demonstrates that the PsyWar is weak.Actually, I think this bit may demonstrate that we had different ideas about the purpose of this going in. My perception was that fighters are fine so the comparison will reveal whether PsyWars suck (ie are worse than fighters), are balanced (in the same ballpark as fighters) or are broken (are way better than fighters). Your baseline seems to have been that fighters suck and that therefore, unless the PsyWar is dramatically better than fighters, they suck too. The problem is that, while the methodology of this comparison is fine for testing my question, it can't test both of your assertions (the fighter sucks, and how does the PsyWar compare to the fighter) at the same time. If I build a fighter who doesn't suck, all it would demonstrate to you is that the PsyWar sucks too. (Apparently, the fighter's demonstrated ability to throw down with any of the CR 20 monsters other than the tarrasque doesn't demonstrate his non-suckiness). The only way to test the assertion that that fighters suck would be to compare fighters to various classes whose balance is a known quantity. I had initially perceived your view to be that PsyWars were a known quantity. Now, I realize you don't see them like that. Amusing. Perhaps the rule for items should be "if an expert 20 can use this item to win a fight with a dragon, it's probably broken."</blockquote>

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