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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1725497" data-attributes="member: 5777">note that I said, 'tactics? whatever skill does that.' and not, 'knowledge (tactics)' <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> They were all in a row though, that is why I put on the extra part of the sentence at the end. Insufficient punctuation in the english language sometimes, at least for the ways that would make sense while being spoken.Whatever skill(s) represent overall mass combat tactics the fighters should get it. Even if this is just profession for something like profession (combat tactics). It could even be used to tell what sort of feats someone has used during the battle, but professions usually dont do that.As for the damage though, there are quite a few things that can be done to up damage. Still though, your analysis there doesnt put in a few points for power attack which pushes up over the edge.. then again, I really like the barbarians 'all power attack, all the time', but that is neither here nor there for this thread. Remember though, crits also count in, which generally add in an extra 10% to the damage. Anything to push that possible damage maximum over the 50 mark. Higher is better.High level fighter types in proper circumstances (which differ depending on the build) should be dealing over 200 points of damage per round to a single target. There are quite a few builds like this on the maximisation threads, they are usually doing that around level 12 or so <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Notice that I said, 'Being able to deal between 60 and 80 points of damage per attack under favorable circumstances is pretty much where they should be anyway (even the guy you just posted doesnt get up that high very easily, having to count on 40 points of damage from power attack is pretty rough).'Which is very different than, 'So, I just don't see where you get the idea that characters need to do 60-80 points of damage per hit to be viable.'Especially when we are talking about level 20! Between various feats and abilities getting quite massive amounts of damage, in the proper circumstance, should be childs play. Much like the charging paladin on his mount and dropping something into divine might or something. Done properly not much can survive that. The barb is much better at pretty high consistant damage over many rounds (starting str 16 + 5 level +5 book +6 enhancement +8 rage = 40, can be higher with a couple of simple spells but this thread is more about straight builds. with +20 BAB, +15 str, +5 weapon, +whatever from feats and other items and there should be enough for an easy 5 points of power attack and still hit decently. This puts him at 2d6 + 37 = avg of 44 which is about 48.8 with crits. An extra enhancement on the weapon of some energy damage puts it up at 52.3 and a max of 59.9. not too shabby.. and this is with almost no real min/maxing).With a few more skills, skill points, and abilities I think that the fighter would be just fine. As it is however... given a big enough pile of feats so that he can pull out the more overpowered ones, or put together an overpowered combo, then he becomes a power house. But that sort of thing does not a good class make, just like the expert above isnt a full blown class for players even though in that form he could take down just about any melee combatant.</blockquote>

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