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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1725617" data-attributes="member: 3146">Your analysis of the barbarian is true but remember when comparing the fighter and barbarians, the primary difference in damage output/round will be greater weapon focus and specialization vs. rage. The 8 points of strength are worth +4 to hit and +6 to damage with a two-handed weapon, while the fighter's bonuses are worth +2 to hit and +4 to damage with any kind of weapon. Comparing it in the two-handed weapon area of the barbarian's specialty, and assuming that he can reliably power attack for two more than the fighter (because the fighter can power attack too), that puts the barbarian at a six point/hit damage advantage over the fighter. That's it. I'm not convinced it's always worth it.Looking at the prior builds, it's important to consider that all of the comparisons were against ACs between 35 and 42. Past AC 35, even these fighters and barbarians will often not find it advantageous to power attack for a lot--even the skin of the proteus build I submitted doesn't gain any advantage by power attacking against AC 42. So, if you are looking to hit the 60-80 points of damage/hit mark, I suspect that a barbarian wouldn't do very differently from the characters detailed here. One of the other things that you'll note by comparing my builds with Wog Wog and some of the other builds that were submitted is the amount of money spent on armor, shields, and other defensive items as well as the amount of money my builds spent on enhancement bonusses. The characters were built for a mixture of offense, defense, and damage. Given better weaponry, they would much more easily reach the targets you're setting just like the barbarian reaches that level. However, one of the valuable things about the calculate whole characters aspect of the thread was in demonstrating the opportunity cost of all that. No D&D character can afford everything he wants. The 20th level fighter can buy a +10 equivalent weapon, some really nifty +10 equivalent armor, a +5 book for strength, +6 items for his physical stats, a +5 amulet of natural armor and ring of protection, and a +10 equivalent shield, he's pretty much out of cash. If the character wants the benefit of a helm of teleportation, the defense of a +5 cloak of resistance, the flexibility of a ring of spell storing, boots of speed, winged boots, a backup weapon, stone of good luck, luckblade, standard of heroism, or anything else, he's got to make some sacrifices. I suspect you'd find that the same is true of barbarians if you attempted to do a similar comparison for them. By the time you actually got down to running the numbers, scaling the weapon enhancements and strength bonusses to meet the 60-80 points of damage per hit mark would come at pretty a pretty painful cost in terms of the character's vulnerabilities and other capabilities--even for a barbarian, much less for a ranger or non-smiting, non-charging, or non-mounted paladin.When it comes down to it, I think that your complaints boil down to the fighter's skill list and skill points--not his ability to dish out and soak up damage.</blockquote>

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