Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Melee Training - Good or Bad?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 4722608" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>This is a very well balanced feat in my book. When you really look at it, it turns the basic attacks of creatures that have insignificant basic attacks into a balanced basic attack that has some utility.</p><p></p><p>I have a dwarven invoker of 4th level. He has this feat, as well as dwarven weapon training and a +1 craghammer. He spent two of his three feats to have a basic attack that does 1d10+8 damage. He has a strength of 10, and a wisdom of 20. </p><p></p><p>If he wasn't using the craghammer in melee, his ranged attack does 1d10+6 radiant or 1d10+9 radiant if there is a bloodied ally next to the target. The damage is pretty in line - especially when you consider I gave up 2 feats to be able to do it.</p><p></p><p>I consider this to pretty much be the situation where one is getting the most bang out of the feat. The odd thing that occurs here is that my invoker with a hammer that used two feats is now attacking enemies slightly better when using a baisc attack than a fighter of his level (as the fighter will focus on strength to suit his encounter/daily powers, and can't get a strength as high as the invoker's wisdom). If it were up to me, I might have made the feat say that you can use strength, consitution or dexterity in the place of strength in at-will attacks (including basic attacks). That would have shifted the utility a bit, making it far more useful for half-elves that want to get defender powers with dilettante. </p><p></p><p>Regardless: When has this dwarven invoker been using this attack? </p><p></p><p>#1: When it is more fun for a dwarf to whack something with a hammer than to hit a target with a spell. I enjoy playing this character as a bit rash, and smiting with a hammer is a bit more fun against a traditional racial enemy like an orc than smiting the orc with a beam of light.</p><p></p><p>#2: When the party's paladin (multiclassed to warlord) grants a melee attack. I give him one more suitable ally to provide a partner for hammer and anvil. Having that extra option makes it easier to use that power, and I think it is good to make powers useful. If a player has an encounter power that they have trouble using almosty every encounter, I think that is kind of boring.</p><p></p><p>#3: I occasionally use it as part of a charge to help set me up for better positioning to use a close power. This will be a more common tactic for me when I get to retrain my first level power to Astral Terror - I am looking forward to charging into the midst of enemies, dealiing a thwack with my hammer against a leader/elite, and then using an action point to drive those enemies out of position with Astral Terror. </p><p></p><p>In the end, I think this feat opens up a lot of doors to allow PCs to make additional types of balanced attacks. In my book, that is just a lot of fun. </p><p></p><p>And if you're still not convinced: In most situations, a character with a high strength, low constitution and the toughness feat is comporable to a character with a high constitution, low strength and this feat when you speak of basic attacks - but the high strength guy gets a bunch of other advantages.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 4722608, member: 2629"] This is a very well balanced feat in my book. When you really look at it, it turns the basic attacks of creatures that have insignificant basic attacks into a balanced basic attack that has some utility. I have a dwarven invoker of 4th level. He has this feat, as well as dwarven weapon training and a +1 craghammer. He spent two of his three feats to have a basic attack that does 1d10+8 damage. He has a strength of 10, and a wisdom of 20. If he wasn't using the craghammer in melee, his ranged attack does 1d10+6 radiant or 1d10+9 radiant if there is a bloodied ally next to the target. The damage is pretty in line - especially when you consider I gave up 2 feats to be able to do it. I consider this to pretty much be the situation where one is getting the most bang out of the feat. The odd thing that occurs here is that my invoker with a hammer that used two feats is now attacking enemies slightly better when using a baisc attack than a fighter of his level (as the fighter will focus on strength to suit his encounter/daily powers, and can't get a strength as high as the invoker's wisdom). If it were up to me, I might have made the feat say that you can use strength, consitution or dexterity in the place of strength in at-will attacks (including basic attacks). That would have shifted the utility a bit, making it far more useful for half-elves that want to get defender powers with dilettante. Regardless: When has this dwarven invoker been using this attack? #1: When it is more fun for a dwarf to whack something with a hammer than to hit a target with a spell. I enjoy playing this character as a bit rash, and smiting with a hammer is a bit more fun against a traditional racial enemy like an orc than smiting the orc with a beam of light. #2: When the party's paladin (multiclassed to warlord) grants a melee attack. I give him one more suitable ally to provide a partner for hammer and anvil. Having that extra option makes it easier to use that power, and I think it is good to make powers useful. If a player has an encounter power that they have trouble using almosty every encounter, I think that is kind of boring. #3: I occasionally use it as part of a charge to help set me up for better positioning to use a close power. This will be a more common tactic for me when I get to retrain my first level power to Astral Terror - I am looking forward to charging into the midst of enemies, dealiing a thwack with my hammer against a leader/elite, and then using an action point to drive those enemies out of position with Astral Terror. In the end, I think this feat opens up a lot of doors to allow PCs to make additional types of balanced attacks. In my book, that is just a lot of fun. And if you're still not convinced: In most situations, a character with a high strength, low constitution and the toughness feat is comporable to a character with a high constitution, low strength and this feat when you speak of basic attacks - but the high strength guy gets a bunch of other advantages. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Melee Training - Good or Bad?
Top