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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1642180" data-attributes="member: 5171">Aha.  Different problem -- it exists in D&D as well, although in D&D there aren't as many people who specifically specialize in affecting others through social skills.I've got no argument with you that there's room for clarification on any skillset, but I've actually had a good time with the d20 Modern interpretations of skills.  Bluff is really more "Persuade" then "Lie", since a bluff may contain a lie, but is not specifically defined as a lie -- it's defined as an attempt to get somebody to do something you want them to do, whether that be giving you the security keycard or letting you into the nightclub.  The FAQ details this in a good way.  A Diplomacy check is really just a "Modify their level of respect/favor for you" check -- it doesn't affect any particular decision, and the PC can't use it to manipulate people.(Back in the General thread, I once posted a long hypothetical situation about using Diplomacy on a bunch of Unfriendly street thugs, rolling well, and turning them Friendly.  The thugs aren't taking the PCs home to meet mama -- "Friendly", in this context, means "Will treat the PCs with respect as befitting the circumstances, will proactively do minor small things under the circumstances to aid the PCs, and will possibly be willing to do major things to favor the PCs -- within the context of the circumstances."  For a thug, this might mean "Dude, this guy looks like a real cool customer.  I'm not gonna start anything, and hey, if somebody looks like they're getting in his face, I'll tell them to cool it.  But if my boss tells me to gun them down, I'm still gunning them down." By the same token, using Diplomacy to turn a jailer Helpful won't make him let you escape.  It will get him to give you better food, seeing as how you're a good sort who's had some hard luck to be in here.  If he's ordered to torture you, he'll hit with the stick, and the bruises will be real, but he'll stop a long time before he'd stop on someone he didn't like.  He'll bring you a clean bucket and might see his way to allowing you a few minutes of private conversation when your lady-friend comes to visit you, even though that's against the rules.  If you do escape, and you do so in a manner that makes him look bad, the jailer is going to try to catch you, even while shaking his head at your vigor and audacity.  If you escape in a manner that doesn't make the jailer look bad, he might not even try to catch you -- "Well, seein' as how you knocked out the king's own guard, I don't see how me tryin' to club you down would do any good.  I'll come back with your dinner in a few minutes and raise the alarm.  Take the stairs on the left -- those'll get you to the kitchens and out into the yard...")Aha.  Cool.  Wasn't clear on fact that you'd changed your mind.  And yeah, I'd be lyin' if I said that the Smart Hero's stuff was every bit as good as the Charismatic Hero's stuff.  Exploit weakness is a talent you take in order to make up for not having a good Strength or Dex -- and if you plan on shooting or swinging, it's probably better to just put points into Strength or Dex.  Trick is pretty much "Taunt", except that it only works once per combat per opponent, which is a bummer.  Plan and Savant are really where it's at.Different strokes, I s'pose.  +4 damage is indeed great, don't get me wrong, but I've seen far too many fights decided by MDTs to think that a even Strong/Soldier is as tough as a D&D fighter.  I might have misspoken earlier -- I don't think that this is exclusively the fact that the classes are less focused (and therefore not as powerful in specific areas), although I do believe that that's true (you tend to have fewer hit points and lower BABs) -- it's the rules themselves.  If you put a D&D fighter in a d20 Modern game, he's boned.  No class bonus to defense, and he drops like a rock when a bad guy crits because he blows that Massive Damage save.  In fact, to slightly reverse my position, I think that the Strong/Soldier might fare a bit better in a D&D world than a Fighter would fare in a d20 Modern world.  The Strong/Soldier is just about flexible enough to turn himself into a Fighter-like-person if need be, using all his feats to get armor and weapons proficiencies, while the Fighter, with no occupation to give him other skills, is sort of adrift in a d20 Modern-rules world, even though he'll have more hit points and a higher BAB than most people his level.Well, it might not fit in the campaign, for starters.  CSI's don't usually need to wear bulletproof vests.  Trying to convince your DM that your X-Files-like conspiracy investigation game won't be disrupted at all if your character slaps on the Forced Entry Armor and has it on at all times unless otherwise specified is gonna be one heck of a social coup... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Agree with all the other stuff you said -- thanks for the clarification.</blockquote>

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