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<blockquote data-quote="Ty" data-source="post: 3868460" data-attributes="member: 16824">As a &quot;D&amp;D&quot; player rather than a generic gamer, I see 4th Ed. in a different light than I think many &quot;gamers&quot; do.&nbsp; I am a D&amp;D player.&nbsp; I viewed Runequest, Talisman, GURPS and other rpg's as fringe game systems that I tried and dismissed because they didn't have the same history or feel as D&amp;D.&nbsp; I tried MtG and didn't care for it.&nbsp; What does this have to do with 4th Edition and why do I have concerns? This is a quote which demonstrates the potential mindset of the designers of 4th Edition to me and why I am concerned:&quot;By the time AD&amp;D came out, I had tinkered with enough game systems that I was impatient with AD&amp;D's claim to be the un-modifiable system everyone should be playing with. I was more interested in other rpgs -- I only ran AD&amp;D once...I skimmed through the 2nd Edition AD&amp;D rulebook and decided I liked the games I was already interested in a lot more. I didn't see 2nd Edition AD&amp;D as an improvement over Runequest or Champions, so I gave it a miss.&quot;The fact is that AD&amp;D and 2nd Edition AD&amp;D entertained me and mine for quite some time; longer than the various permutations of 3.X have.&nbsp; It wasn't the best &quot;game system&quot; but it wasn't the worst either.&nbsp; It was however, D&amp;D.&nbsp; It had a history and it was fun.&nbsp; I didn't need all the rules and we freely altered it on the fly.&nbsp; The game didn't break down at level 20 though, as I recall.&nbsp; If anything, we had a party of characters we played for nearly 5 years, from level 1 to level 28.&nbsp; Those characters started in AD&amp;D and ended with the odd supplements TSR released regarding Combat and Tactics or something.The point is that despite the naysayers, the older editions had their quirks just as 3.X has its quirks.&nbsp; The opinions that 4th Edition is required to fix X, Y, or Z problem is one person's opinion.&nbsp; We have played 3.5 successfully at 18th and 20th levels.&nbsp; Is it difficult for the DM and players?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Is it impossible?&nbsp; No.I take issue with the casual disregard of the &quot;grognard&quot; who remembers opening up the Oriental Adventures book and playing a Samurai in the adventure Lost City.&nbsp; There is much in the way of history with D&amp;D that frankly, some designers seem to casually toss aside because of their own past prejudices as to &quot;superior&quot; game systems.&nbsp; I don't need someone to point out the mechanical flaws in whatever version of D&amp;D they care to enlighten us upon.&nbsp; Each edition was flawed in its own, unique way.&nbsp; Each edition though, built on the past history of the game.&nbsp; It provided a continuum that was comforting.&nbsp; It shepharded me through the changes without unduly altering my hobby.&nbsp; This is what D&amp;D is; a hobby that I have enjoyed since I Ronald Reagan pushed Jimmy Carter out of office.I buy D&amp;D because it is D&amp;D and I am a D&amp;D player.&nbsp; I am not a gamer.&nbsp; I understand you want to create the &quot;Wow!&quot; D&amp;D but I am concerned that the current crop of designers don't show the respect for history that is wise.&nbsp; Instead, I see quotes like the one above and I shudder at what they will do to my hobby.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ty, post: 3868460, member: 16824"] As a "D&D" player rather than a generic gamer, I see 4th Ed. in a different light than I think many "gamers" do. I am a D&D player. I viewed Runequest, Talisman, GURPS and other rpg's as fringe game systems that I tried and dismissed because they didn't have the same history or feel as D&D. I tried MtG and didn't care for it. What does this have to do with 4th Edition and why do I have concerns? This is a quote which demonstrates the potential mindset of the designers of 4th Edition to me and why I am concerned: "By the time AD&D came out, I had tinkered with enough game systems that I was impatient with AD&D's claim to be the un-modifiable system everyone should be playing with. I was more interested in other rpgs -- I only ran AD&D once... I skimmed through the 2nd Edition AD&D rulebook and decided I liked the games I was already interested in a lot more. I didn't see 2nd Edition AD&D as an improvement over Runequest or Champions, so I gave it a miss." The fact is that AD&D and 2nd Edition AD&D entertained me and mine for quite some time; longer than the various permutations of 3.X have. It wasn't the best "game system" but it wasn't the worst either. It was however, D&D. It had a history and it was fun. I didn't need all the rules and we freely altered it on the fly. The game didn't break down at level 20 though, as I recall. If anything, we had a party of characters we played for nearly 5 years, from level 1 to level 28. Those characters started in AD&D and ended with the odd supplements TSR released regarding Combat and Tactics or something. The point is that despite the naysayers, the older editions had their quirks just as 3.X has its quirks. The opinions that 4th Edition is required to fix X, Y, or Z problem is one person's opinion. We have played 3.5 successfully at 18th and 20th levels. Is it difficult for the DM and players? Yes. Is it impossible? No. I take issue with the casual disregard of the "grognard" who remembers opening up the Oriental Adventures book and playing a Samurai in the adventure Lost City. There is much in the way of history with D&D that frankly, some designers seem to casually toss aside because of their own past prejudices as to "superior" game systems. I don't need someone to point out the mechanical flaws in whatever version of D&D they care to enlighten us upon. Each edition was flawed in its own, unique way. Each edition though, built on the past history of the game. It provided a continuum that was comforting. It shepharded me through the changes without unduly altering my hobby. This is what D&D is; a hobby that I have enjoyed since I Ronald Reagan pushed Jimmy Carter out of office. I buy D&D because it is D&D and I am a D&D player. I am not a gamer. I understand you want to create the "Wow!" D&D but I am concerned that the current crop of designers don't show the respect for history that is wise. Instead, I see quotes like the one above and I shudder at what they will do to my hobby. [/QUOTE]

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