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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5694833" data-attributes="member: 6669384">I'd look at what Take 10 can get them.If it won't do it then they need to come up with bonuses.&nbsp; In your example, where a Take 10 will only get them 13 out of 15 needed, then they'll need to team up and Aid Another for that 2 point bonus.&nbsp; Or maybe they'll need to pack away the armor to get rid of the Armor Check penalties.&nbsp; Swimming with the &quot;buddy system&quot; really does work, after all.Same with the Climb checks.&nbsp; There are Climbing kits that can give a bonus.&nbsp; If one person can make the climb on a Take 10, he can drop a rope to the others.&nbsp; The check to climb a knotted rope is a base DC 5.&nbsp; Moving ledge to ledge, section by section, and taking safety precautions, you should be able to make it work, even if you're scaling a 200 foot cliff using only 50 foot ropes.But the players need to think of that.&nbsp; This is where Role Playing the scene comes in, to get those circumstance bonuses needed, as per our other conversation.Oh, and another idea:&nbsp; IRL, most people would scout up and down river for a good crossing point, or check along that cliff face for an easier face to climb, or a way around.&nbsp; If you just can't make it up/across here safely, find someplace where the DC is lower.That old saw about why people climb mountains, &quot;Because it's there!&quot;?&nbsp; That's the same reason a most normal people give for going around them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 5694833, member: 6669384"] I'd look at what Take 10 can get them. If it won't do it then they need to come up with bonuses. In your example, where a Take 10 will only get them 13 out of 15 needed, then they'll need to team up and Aid Another for that 2 point bonus. Or maybe they'll need to pack away the armor to get rid of the Armor Check penalties. Swimming with the "buddy system" really does work, after all. Same with the Climb checks. There are Climbing kits that can give a bonus. If one person can make the climb on a Take 10, he can drop a rope to the others. The check to climb a knotted rope is a base DC 5. Moving ledge to ledge, section by section, and taking safety precautions, you should be able to make it work, even if you're scaling a 200 foot cliff using only 50 foot ropes. But the players need to think of that. This is where Role Playing the scene comes in, to get those circumstance bonuses needed, as per our other conversation. Oh, and another idea: IRL, most people would scout up and down river for a good crossing point, or check along that cliff face for an easier face to climb, or a way around. If you just can't make it up/across here safely, find someplace where the DC is lower. That old saw about why people climb mountains, "Because it's there!"? That's the same reason a most normal people give for going around them. :) [/QUOTE]

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