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<blockquote data-quote="Caliban" data-source="post: 1385954" data-attributes="member: 284">Burning Hands is the spell.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Sure, since you are casting Burning Hands.&nbsp; &nbsp; The metamagic feats simply modify the original spell.&nbsp;&nbsp; All of them modify the effects of the original spell without actually changing the spell itself.&nbsp; (Except in the case of Heighten, which actually changes the level of the original spell.)&nbsp; &nbsp;Your method would require that that the feats apply in a certain order, and I don't see where that is stated or implied anywhere in the rules.&nbsp; &nbsp;Why would the&nbsp; Cold Substitution be applied before the Twin Spell?&nbsp;&nbsp; If you Twin the original spell, and then Cold Substitute the original spell you get one thing.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you Cold Substititute it first, and then Twin or Repeat it, you get something else.&nbsp;&nbsp;I think all the metamagic feats are applied at once to the original spell.&nbsp; So the original spell is copied with a Twin or Repeat, and it is also Cold Substituted or Maximed.&nbsp; Since they happen simultaneously, the feats don't &quot;see&quot; each other. &nbsp;That is why Empower and Maximize work the way they do, and why Twin and Repeat don't multiply the effects of other feats.&nbsp;That's reasonable, consistent, and follows the clearly stated example in the rules.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Caliban, post: 1385954, member: 284"] Burning Hands is the spell. Sure, since you are casting Burning Hands. The metamagic feats simply modify the original spell. All of them modify the effects of the original spell without actually changing the spell itself. (Except in the case of Heighten, which actually changes the level of the original spell.) Your method would require that that the feats apply in a certain order, and I don't see where that is stated or implied anywhere in the rules. Why would the Cold Substitution be applied before the Twin Spell? If you Twin the original spell, and then Cold Substitute the original spell you get one thing. If you Cold Substititute it first, and then Twin or Repeat it, you get something else. I think all the metamagic feats are applied at once to the original spell. So the original spell is copied with a Twin or Repeat, and it is also Cold Substituted or Maximed. Since they happen simultaneously, the feats don't "see" each other. That is why Empower and Maximize work the way they do, and why Twin and Repeat don't multiply the effects of other feats. That's reasonable, consistent, and follows the clearly stated example in the rules. [/QUOTE]

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