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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 1386206" data-attributes="member: 1656">No, it doesn't.I can Twin an Empowered Magic Missile, or I can Empower a Twinned Magic Missile.&nbsp; Either way gives the same result - the order is unimportant.The order doesn't matter.&nbsp;Your way requires a lot of assumptions also, and the &quot;specific example&quot; is not given as a specific example, but a specific case.&nbsp; It's not &quot;As with any combination of metamagic feats, Empower and Maximize apply their effects separately to the base spell&quot;.&nbsp; It's &quot;An Empowered, Maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat&quot;.&nbsp;The only inconsistency is with Empower and Maximize in combination... because they are given a specific exception in the text of the feats.If Energy Substitution carried a note &quot;A single spell may not use both the Sonic Substitution and Silent Spell feats&quot;, that wouldn't mean you can't use Silent Spell in combination with any metamagic feat; it would mean you couldn'y use it in combination with Sonic Substitution.There is no hint given that the specific case of Empower and Maximize is intended to be generalised to cover all Metamagic feats.-Hyp.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 1386206, member: 1656"] No, it doesn't. I can Twin an Empowered Magic Missile, or I can Empower a Twinned Magic Missile. Either way gives the same result - the order is unimportant. The order doesn't matter. Your way requires a lot of assumptions also, and the "specific example" is not given as a specific [i]example[/i], but a specific [i]case[/i]. It's not "As with any combination of metamagic feats, Empower and Maximize apply their effects separately to the base spell". It's "An Empowered, Maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat". The only inconsistency is with Empower and Maximize in combination... because they are given a specific exception in the text of the feats. If Energy Substitution carried a note "A single spell may not use both the Sonic Substitution and Silent Spell feats", that wouldn't mean you can't use Silent Spell in combination with [i]any[/i] metamagic feat; it would mean you couldn'y use it in combination with Sonic Substitution. There is no hint given that the specific case of Empower and Maximize is intended to be generalised to cover [i]all[/i] Metamagic feats. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]

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