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<blockquote data-quote="Caliban" data-source="post: 1386483" data-attributes="member: 284">Read the damn feat Hyp. It duplicates the spell. When you Twin a spell you get two seperate spells. Jeez. &nbsp;You only applied Empower once, why should it affect both spells without paying the level difference twice? &nbsp;&nbsp;I really don't think that's the case. The only feat that actually changes the base spell is Heighten (and possibly Energy Substitution.) &nbsp;&nbsp;To me it's obvious that it's referring to the spell before you modified it with metamagic feats.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Please don't repeat my words back to me when they don't actually apply. &nbsp;Your assumptions:&nbsp;1) Empower and Maximize work differently than every other metamagic feat combination. &nbsp;2) Metamagic feats apply in specific order. &nbsp;3) Certain metamagic feats can duplicate the spell and metamagic feats (even though they only say they duplicate the spell).&nbsp;4) A spell+metamagic feat is identical to a spell without metamagic feats as far as other metamagic feats are concerned.&nbsp;5) Maximize + Energy Admixture gives the same basic effect as Maximize + Empower, yet would not limited the same way. &nbsp;Or is it that, of all the feats in the PHB, they are the only ones that can interact in this way? The example they give illustrates the general case, because thats the only place where it comes up in the PHB.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*sigh* &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Because those two feats are modifying different elements of the spell, whereas empower + Maximize are modifying the same element of the spell.&nbsp;It absolutely does not. Other than Heighten, feats don't interact. Each feat modifies the one part of the spell that it's designed for, ignoring the effects of other feats on that part of the spell. &nbsp;*sigh*. Now you are putting words in my mouth Hyp. Please don't try to change my interpretation into something it's not. &nbsp;Extend doesn't interact with any other feat. It just extends the duration of the spell, that's all. Repeat doesn't interact with any other feat. It just duplicates the base spell. &nbsp;&nbsp;Because the feats are designed to do two different things. &nbsp;Becaus the Extend feat extends the duration of the spell. That's the only thing it effects. It doesnt' interact with the other feats at all. The Fire substition changes the damage type of the spell. It doesn't change anything else, or affect anything else. They directly interact with each other in any way. &nbsp;Repeat spell just repeats the base spell. It does not duplicate feats.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Caliban, post: 1386483, member: 284"] Read the damn feat Hyp. It duplicates the spell. When you Twin a spell you get two seperate spells. Jeez. You only applied Empower once, why should it affect both spells without paying the level difference twice? I really don't think that's the case. The only feat that actually changes the base spell is Heighten (and possibly Energy Substitution.) To me it's obvious that it's referring to the spell before you modified it with metamagic feats. Please don't repeat my words back to me when they don't actually apply. Your assumptions: 1) Empower and Maximize work differently than every other metamagic feat combination. 2) Metamagic feats apply in specific order. 3) Certain metamagic feats can duplicate the spell and metamagic feats (even though they only say they duplicate the spell). 4) A spell+metamagic feat is identical to a spell without metamagic feats as far as other metamagic feats are concerned. 5) Maximize + Energy Admixture gives the same basic effect as Maximize + Empower, yet would not limited the same way. Or is it that, of all the feats in the PHB, they are the only ones that can interact in this way? The example they give illustrates the general case, because thats the only place where it comes up in the PHB. *sigh* Because those two feats are modifying different elements of the spell, whereas empower + Maximize are modifying the same element of the spell. It absolutely does not. Other than Heighten, feats don't interact. Each feat modifies the one part of the spell that it's designed for, ignoring the effects of other feats on that part of the spell. *sigh*. Now you are putting words in my mouth Hyp. Please don't try to change my interpretation into something it's not. Extend doesn't interact with any other feat. It just extends the duration of the spell, that's all. Repeat doesn't interact with any other feat. It just duplicates the base spell. Because the feats are designed to do two different things. Becaus the Extend feat extends the duration of the spell. That's the only thing it effects. It doesnt' interact with the other feats at all. The Fire substition changes the damage type of the spell. It doesn't change anything else, or affect anything else. They directly interact with each other in any way. Repeat spell just repeats the base spell. It does not duplicate feats. [/QUOTE]

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