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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 1386550" data-attributes="member: 1656">&quot;Of the spell&quot;, not &quot;of the base spell&quot;?Acid Fog - a &quot;base spell&quot; - has a duration of 1 round per level.&nbsp; It deals 2d6 damage each round.If I Empower the base spell, it deals 2d6 x 1.5 damage for 1 round per level.If I Extend the base spell, it deals 2d6 damage for 2 rounds per level.But you've already said that an Extended Empowered Acid Fog deals 2d6 x 1.5 damage for 2 rounds per level.Aren't you getting a free Empower here as well?&nbsp; Empowering an Acid Fog grants me an effective extra 1d6/level.&nbsp; Empowering an Extended Acid Fog grants me an effective extra 2d6/level.&nbsp; The base spell - Acid Fog - is the same, and yet Empowering the one with another Metamagic feat applied is granting me double the Empowering effect.And all three elements - two feats and a spell - are core.&nbsp; So apparently there's nothing wrong with a second metamagic feat (that isn't Maximize Spell) making Empower Spell twice as effective.Energy Admixture in combination with Empower Spell, applied to, say, Burning Hands, in the absence of a rule stating that the feats apply their effects separately to the base spell, would deal 5d4 x 1.5 fire and 5d4 x 1.5 cold, say.&nbsp; The effect of the Empower Spell is doubled by the addition of a second metamagic feat... just like the Extended Acid Fog above.&nbsp; What's the difference?Given that there is no text in the Energy Admixture feat to state that it applies separately to the base spell in conjunction with Empower, why is it more correct to asssume that it works like the combination of Maximize and Empower, which requires that explicit statement, than to assume it works like Extend and Empower?-Hyp.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 1386550, member: 1656"] "Of the spell", not "of the base spell"? Acid Fog - a "base spell" - has a duration of 1 round per level. It deals 2d6 damage each round. If I Empower the base spell, it deals 2d6 x 1.5 damage for 1 round per level. If I Extend the base spell, it deals 2d6 damage for 2 rounds per level. But you've already said that an Extended Empowered Acid Fog deals 2d6 x 1.5 damage for 2 rounds per level. Aren't you getting a free Empower here as well? Empowering an Acid Fog grants me an effective extra 1d6/level. Empowering an Extended Acid Fog grants me an effective extra 2d6/level. The base spell - Acid Fog - is the same, and yet Empowering the one with another Metamagic feat applied is granting me double the Empowering effect. And all three elements - two feats and a spell - are core. So apparently there's nothing wrong with a second metamagic feat (that isn't Maximize Spell) making Empower Spell twice as effective. Energy Admixture in combination with Empower Spell, applied to, say, Burning Hands, in the absence of a rule stating that the feats apply their effects separately to the base spell, would deal 5d4 x 1.5 fire and 5d4 x 1.5 cold, say. The effect of the Empower Spell is doubled by the addition of a second metamagic feat... [i]just like the Extended Acid Fog above[/i]. What's the difference? Given that there is no text in the Energy Admixture feat to state that it applies separately to the base spell in conjunction with Empower, why is it more correct to asssume that it works like the combination of Maximize and Empower, which requires that explicit statement, than to assume it works like Extend and Empower? -Hyp. [/QUOTE]

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